Okay I Already Replied On Ao3 About This, But Im Gonna Repost My Replay Here Cause I Feel Some People

Okay I already replied on ao3 about this, but Im gonna repost my replay here cause I feel some people should see this.

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A few extra points about how it might have been the dread doctors who put the idea of killing Scott in Theo's head back in the first episode of season 5 we have belasko another chimera who tried to kill Scott and after he failed Theo then took up the job to me at least it shows how the dreads might have wanted Scott dead and after balesko failed passed on the job to theo later in the season we also have a scene with theo and malia where theo mentions that the dread doctors wanted everyone dead and that he convinced them to just kill Scott and that he did what he had to, to survive.

Next point is that I just don't think Theo really had free will like some people think he does, we see the dread doctors going around killing chimera's that they deem failures and at first we see it's cause their rejecting the transformation but as we see when Theo brings them back to life the dread doctors could have easily fixed that issue but they still killed them, then going back to balesko we see him at the end of the episode pleading "I can do it just give me a second chance", the dread doctors specifically say "no second chances" and kill him, the dreads also say that he needed to remove the obstacle(meaning Scott) and as we see later in the season the dread doctors say Theo is a partial sucuss but a failure none the less what all that says to me is that the dreads give the chimeras certain jobs like killing, manipulating, etc and if they fail or don't deliver they are then killed. So I think if Theo ever tried to leave or betray them they would instantly kill him. So honestly if I was Theo I would do the same.

So, to summarize we see that the dread doctors first gave the mission of killing Scott to belasko and when he failed they killed him and passed on the job to Theo, Theo even managed to convince them to only kill Scott instead of the whole pack, and if Theo ever failed or disobeyed they would have killed him I think that's why Theo killed Scott in such an emotional way cause his original plan failed and he didn't get scotts power but he still didnt deleiver what the dreads wanted thats why theo looked so angry and emotional its because he was afraid. Kinda like what he tells Liam in season 6 "you only feel one emotion at a time, that's why you get angry when your afraid" and all these points aren't taking into account all the grooming, abuse,and manipulation he went through with the dread doctors

I'm not saying that Theo is blameless cause their were certain situations where he could have handled it better but he was doing the best he could with what he knew and he was just a kid he shouldn't be in that situation in the first place that why I can't judge or blame him in my opinion it all falls on the dread doctors.

On Theo Raeken and Manipulation

Introduction:

The purpose of this is to explore what manipulation really does and the effects it can have on people – especially young children. And, as should be no surprise to anyone, it is also an ode to Theo Raeken. A defense of Theo Raeken, if you will. I’ll be referencing three scholarly articles, one Tumblr post, and the show Teen Wolf (obviously). But, I will admit, most of this is speculative. I’m going to try hard to keep it to canon, but I know my bias is going to be in there. But instead of stating it as fact, I’ll ask open-ended questions you can feel free to fight with me about. But this really isn’t the post I intended on making. I intended to write a pure essay on defending Theo Raeken, but that’s been done before no one listens. I thought I’d switch it up and put my Psychology degree to good use, finally. Okay, that’s enough introduction. Let’s roll.

Who is Theo Raeken?

If you don’t know, you should probably stop reading unless you really care about manipulation and its effects. I’m writing this assuming you know who Theo Raeken is and why he needs defended.

Definitions of Manipulation

All of this comes from https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344540018_PSYCHOLOGICAL_ASPECTS_OF_MANIPULATION_WITHIN_AN_INTERPERSONAL_INTERACTION_MANIPULATIONS_AND_MANIPULATORS. They refer to different types of manipulation, and use other terms for it occasionally. They start by defining “influence during interaction” – a subtype of manipulation – from psychological dictionaries as “a process when an individual is changing the behavior of another person as well as his/her attitudes, intentions, ideas, as a result of the person’s activity.” Cause and effect changes occur in the person’s mind, such as psychological characteristics of the individual*, group norms, public opinion, et cetera. Psychological impact can be explicit or implicit, depending on whether the goals of the manipulator are communicated in advance and not hidden. This is clearly the case in season 5 – Theo knows all about the Dread Doctors’ plan – but whose to say it was always like this? You can assume perhaps it was, if he knew what he was doing it for when he took Tara’s heart. But just because they told him one thing doesn’t mean they told him everything – did he know of their master plan when he was 8/9/10 (I wish canon gave us an actual age)? We have no way of knowing this, so for the sake of this article we’re going with the assumption both occurred at different stages. But implicit (covert) psychological influence emphasizes its destructive characteristics. Meaning, manipulation, at its core, can be positive or negative, depending on what the person is being manipulated to do. But obviously Theo wasn’t selected to do benevolent things, so we can get a sense of implicit manipulation here.

There is a latent impact in manipulation that can make the victim susceptible to pursuing various goals and intentions of the initiator. I talked to Des (the wonderful @bendystrah) about this particular point. Once again, what we know about Theo’s childhood is very limited. We don’t know what all he did for the ten-ish years he was with them. We don’t know what all they did to him. We don’t know a lot. But this point is saying the victim can be persuaded into doing what the perpetrator wants, even if they’re not their own goals or intentions. I bring up this point for a reason. We all know in season 5 he was acting on his own free will most of the time (does he even have free will still? Or has it been totally warped and convoluted?), but we know little about what happened with Tara. We know how she died, and why she died, and who is responsible for her death (well, I’m about to refute that one actually). What we don’t know is if Theo woke up one morning and went, “Huh, I kinda want Tara’s heart actually.” You can hate Theo and claim he did, but again, we have zero evidence that points to the fact Theo was already an evil child. We all know he was being visited by the Dread Doctors before Tara’s death, so I think it’s pretty obvious they were the ones who wanted Tara’s heart to make Theo a genetic chimera. Why her heart? Why them? We don’t know that, but we do know their goals and intentions – to make Theo a genetic chimera – and they get Theo to do the dirty work for them for whatever reason. So, in this point, I am claiming it’s possible Theo was completely manipulated into doing this and didn’t have any intentions of ever doing it until he was visited by the Dread Doctors. I mean, this is literally laid out in 5x16, so I’m just talking to talk. If you aren’t insane like me and don’t remember every Theo scene in an episode by just its number, it’s where he’s talking to Stiles in the sewers.

STILES: The guy who murdered his own sister when he was nine?

THEO: Yeah, I was nine years old. I also believed a guy in a red suit came down the chimney to deliver presents. So when three people in leather masks showed up and said that my sister wanted me to have her heart, I believed them, too.

So we know what the goals and intentions of the Dread Doctors are. It’s not hard to assume Theo is telling the truth in this scene (for a number of different reasons, including why lie and it lines up nicely with our theory), and, if he is, it goes to show he was psychologically influenced into doing this.

Furthermore, manipulation is always negative. Even if the goals were altruistic – which they are clearly not here – the process of manipulation is a negative one. This doesn’t really tie into our thesis here, but it is important to note.

The object of manipulation is viewed “as a means of achieving one’s own goals . . . without taking into account the interests, will, desire of the other side.” Meaning: the Dread Doctors didn’t care what Theo wanted. He was not their equal. They didn’t sit around a table and gently ask Theo what his interests, will, and desire was. We’ll never know Theo’s true interests, will, and desire before it was warped* into something else.

Okay, this next point is a bit complicated and is giving me a little bit of a headache (and I’m also a little high, which is so fun to admit to in an essay). But basically, “the manipulative impact focused on personality structures is characterized by the actualization of an interpersonal conflict, when the recipient of the manipulation is held responsible for the choice made through suffering in doubt.” So let’s break that down. That’s basically saying, there’s an impact of manipulation in which the victim is held responsible for what they did while being manipulated and thus feels interpersonal conflict. And obviously Theo is. No one ever argues the point that he killed his sister. And I’m not claiming otherwise, so don’t come at me yet, but this definition is claiming the victim of the manipulation is not at fault for their actions, but the person manipulating them is. And, as a result of this, the victim has interpersonal conflict. I mean, do I even need to say it? Theo’s entire Hell is this interpersonal conflict. To continue, it is claimed that “this type of manipulation the exploitation of the personality, because here . . . the desire [is] to shift the responsibility for the committed actions to the recipient, while the manipulator gets the win.” Once again, this claims the victim is not responsible for their actions, but the perpetrator(s) of the manipulation is. Now is where it gets tricky, and starts to give me a headache. It is said in these cases “it is extremely important for the manipular to create an illusion of choice for the agent of influence” and “when a person is sure that he/she is acting of his/her own free will, he/she will do much more than when he/she knows that he/she is fulfilling someone else’s decisions imposed on him/her.” Okay. I took a break (finally) and now I’m back. Knuckles cracked and everything. So, what this is talking about is when the manipulator wants something but, for whatever reason, doesn’t want to do it themselves and thus use the victim as a conduit to carry out their crime. They make it feel like the victim’s idea, because this makes the victim more likely to do it. I talked to Des about this one too, and what conclusion I came to was how this could possibly – possibly, still no coming at me yet – be the case with Theo’s desire to kill Scott. We know Theo wants Scott dead for his powers. But do the Dread Doctors also want him dead? That, here, is the key question. Me and Des think yes, as having Scott out of the way would make their work easier. But they don’t care so much that they’ll do it themselves. But what if they, really, want Theo to kill Scott? We don’t know if they do or don’t, so we can’t say for sure either way. I’ve done a little research on this but can’t seem to find any solid conclusions on the matter (trust me when I say I looked). So this one isn’t really sturdy, but it’s an interesting theory that the Dread Doctors allowed Theo to feel like he was making his own choices when really he was just helping the Dread Doctors carry out their plans. Maybe they, too, wanted the chaos and discord within the Pack. Now, obviously bringing the Chimeras back wasn’t their goal – hello, why kill them, then? – but I believe they also could’ve stopped Theo had they wanted to. They could’ve stopped Theo from doing anything if they had wanted to. The fact that they didn’t doesn’t point to them being nice and chill and just letting Theo do what he wants. To me, this is more likely stemming from the fact that, somehow, this all fit into their master plan – or, at least, didn’t interfere with it. But, like I said, if they wanted to stop Theo from doing any of this, they could’ve. Which makes me wonder if Theo’s free will wasn’t as free as it appears.

This article also mentions how authority is a particularly sound influence, but I will also explore a similar topic later on so I won’t bother with it now.

*This definition refers to the fact manipulation can cause changes in the psychological characteristics. Now, as a later source mentions, we will never know the full story of Theo’s childhood. All we know is what the show tells us, which isn’t a lot. But we can assume he wasn’t, like, one of those “evil children” who were just “born that way.” Because Scott or Stiles would’ve mentioned that, if he’d gone around killing animals or something. You can argue they didn’t know, but we also have literally zero evidence that he did do anything like that, so it’s a weird assumption to make. He had asthma, and played Little League, and no one ever mentions anything blaringly wrong with his early childhood. What I’m getting at here is a change in psychological characteristics. Maybe Theo was evil before, and that’s why the Dread Doctors targeted him. Or maybe he wasn’t, and went through actual psychological changes in his characteristics which caused him to act differently than he ever would have had he not been put on this path.

*In season 5, his interests, will, and desire are having a Pack and having power. These are his intentions and goals. First of all, I want to note that none of his goals are “murder.” Does murder fall into his plan? Absolutely. He’s clearly very much okay with it. But it’s not like his motivations are as shallow as “killing is fun!” He has reasons to kill Tracy and Josh, and reasons for wanting Scott dead. You can argue what he did to Scott was the worst thing he did, because he killed him out of emotion, not gaining anything from it. I know I’m basically saying premeditated murder is better, but that’s not what I mean. I just mean it isn’t like he originally set out to kill people for a good time. Killing people just happened to be the way to get what he wanted. Furthermore, who knows what his intentions would’ve been had he not lived the life he did? His intentions were formed as reactions. Wanting a Pack was a response to, well, not having one. And wanting power was a response to having none. If he’d been able to live a normal life, there’s no reason to assume he would’ve ever had aspirations like that.

Who is Manipulated?

Everything in this section comes from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8905186/. This article, actually, does not explore the heading at all. It explores radicalization in a religious sense in prisoners who were manipulated. But, the data in the article made it worth using for our purposes here. Starting with the fact “that the process of radicalization follows several phases, during which the recruiters indoctrinate and prepare young people for the use of violence.” And that sentence is what this section is really about: youth. This section will demonstrate how crucial of a factor age is, and what that says about Theo.

“According to this model, recruiters identify their targets in vulnerable contexts.” What this means is that the victim is usually already vulnerable in the eyes of the manipulator. Now, we don’t know why the Dread Doctors chose Theo. We know, like, three things about his early childhood, and none of those three things are even his age. But one of the three things is that he had asthma. Okay, you say, so did Scott. Well, maybe the Dread Doctors were looking for someone who had asthma and also a sibling. That sounds unlikely, but I’m simply illustrating the point that it is a possible weakness he had in his health, making him potentially already vulnerable. Or maybe he had shitty parents. Or maybe he had great parents. We don’t know anything else about his childhood. So we can’t really confirm this point, but what’s important is that we can also not deny it.

Next, “the first phase is psychological submission (emotional radicalization), whereby the young person loses their autonomy and becomes dependent.” Well, this is pretty obvious. The Dread Doctors took Theo away from his parents, and thus he became entirely dependent on them. What else is an 8/9/10 year old supposed to do? He has to depend on them, he has no other options. He can’t just depend on himself, because how is an 8/9/10 year old supposed to have or make money? How’s he supposed to eat? Where is he supposed to sleep? So, yeah, he’s dependent. But, this is also “achieved by using persuasive and aggressive communication strategies, such as social isolation and inducing confusion between reality and fantasy.” We definitely can check the social isolation. Now’s where one of the Tumblr articles comes in. In this post (https://demonzdust.tumblr.com/post/178486817906/part-i-introduction-theo-before-the-dread) the author states that, “We know that the Dread Doctors kidnap and experiment on people while they are still conscious. We also know that they are capable of inducing hallucinations. They can do all of this unbeknownst to others. That leaves them with a lot of tools to shape a young Theo into what they wanted.” I reference this post because it says what I wanted to say better and more succinctly than I could. Especially the part regarding the hallucinations, and how that ties into the article’s point about inducing confusion between reality and fantasy. Like we’ve said, we don’t know what all the Dread Doctors did to Theo. But it’s entirely possible they confused his reality and fantasy, at least for a period of time.

Now we get more into the actual article, which is about religious radicalization. But we’re going to spin this into a Theo context. “Finally, in the third phase of violent disinhibition and legitimization (violent radicalization), the recruit validates the use of violence by associating with the mistreatment and oppression allegedly suffered by their new group, identifies the enemy, and shifts responsibility by making an attack essential to improving their situation.” Okay, that was a lot of words. Let’s break it down. In short, for there to be violent radicalization, setting a clear enemy and making the victim feel like attacking that enemy is the only way to improve their situation must be present. This goes back to my earlier point about the Dread Doctors and possibly wanting Scott dead/chaos and discord in the Pack. Did the Dread Doctors convince him this Pack consisting of his old friends was the enemy? Did they make him think they needed to be disbanded for Theo to get his own Pack and the power he’s craving? We don’t know. We can’t say yes, but we also can’t say no.

Next is where we get into the youth aspect of this section. Youth is noted as “a particularly relevant stage in the radicalization process.” We know Theo is young. As young as 8 when this started, and around 18 during season 5. This article talks about 20-28 being young, so Theo would fall into the category of being extremely young. If youth is a relevant age in radicalizing 20-28 year olds, what exactly does it do to someone who might be 8 years old? The article continues by stating, “Age could be considered a risk factor for radicalization.” Which just means that Theo had a risk factor already before ever being visited by the Dread Doctors. Why? Why is being young more of a risk factor? Well, I’m glad you asked, because I have answers. 

The experience of more extreme and variable emotions

Greater threat/stress sensitivity

Commitment with violence

Basically, young people experience more extreme and variable emotions due to “deficits in both emotional regulation and emotion reactivity (sensitivity).” This also applies to the second point, and why threat/stress sensitivity is greater. Now, the last part is more for adolescents than a child. But it states that the youth are more likely to engage in risky behaviors and commit more violence than other age groups. Now, these are not reasons Theo is the way he is. Everyone is a child/adolescent at some point. But these are risk factors, and they could have played a role in making Theo more susceptible to manipulation and violence.

Barely Even Human

Yeah, I know it was cruel to name this section that. But it fits. Everything in this section comes from https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ethics-manipulation/. This article defines manipulation as “radical programming or reprogramming of all or most of an agent’s beliefs, desires, and other mental states.” The thought is that “that manipulative influences bypass the target’s capacity for rational deliberation.” This is implying that the Dread Doctors and their manipulation of Theo could’ve bypassed his ability to really think about the choices he was making. This has long-lasting implications. If we believe this to be true, it is possible that the Theo we see simply doesn’t have a “capacity for rational deliberation.” Meaning, he acts in irrational ways, or ways that look irrational to others but seem rational to  him because he lacks the ability to purposefully and calculatingly make decisions. Instead, he acts in a way that meets his most basic survival needs. And what does a wolf need? A Pack. And what does someone who has been manipulated for a decade need? Power. He needs a Pack and power, and thus those are his goals. Are they rationally deliberated goals? We don’t know, but this article suggests the possibility that the answer is no.

“Manipulation is commonly used aggressively, as a way to harm the manipulator’s target, or at least to benefit the manipulator at the target’s expense.” This point doesn’t have a lot to do with the points I’m making in this essay, but it does make me sad for Theo.

“Another natural way to account for the wrongness of manipulation would be to claim that it violates, undermines, or is otherwise antithetical to the target’s personal autonomy.” This is, more or less, what we talked about earlier. That Theo may never have made any of the decisions he made if not for the Dread Doctors. This implies none of this was done out of his own personal desire to do so, and that it may very well be things he never would have done otherwise. The article goes onto further state that, “It is natural to regard [manipulation] as interfering with autonomous decision-making. The idea that manipulation is wrong because it undermines autonomous choice is implicit in discussions of manipulation as a potential invalidator of consent.” Meaning, Theo’s consent wasn’t important during the time he spent with the Dread Doctors. The Dread Doctors didn’t take it into consideration. This doesn’t mean he actively did things he didn’t consent to doing, but it does bring up the possibility for further discussion.

Lastly, this article states that, “In this view, manipulation involves treating the target as a device to be operated rather than an agent to be reasoned with.” We already know the Dread Doctors viewed Theo as an object. Whether he could be a success or a failure. They never cared about him as a person, merely as a tool to do things they couldn’t/didn’t want to do. If you view Theo this way – as a device to be operated – it takes away some of the blame placed upon him for his actions. He was wound up and made to go, simply put.

Conclusions

TL;DR: Manipulation is bad. Don’t do it. Theo was manipulated, and primed to be so because of his status as a youth. In this essay, we explored his actions and the possibilities behind why they occurred. Our conclusions are that it’s entirely possible he was completely manipulated by the Dread Doctors and thus acted as a puppet whilst they pulled the strings.

If you disagree with anything I said, let me know. But not just in a “screw you you’re stupid” way. Let’s have an actual conversation.

I hope you enjoyed this at least a little bit, or learned something from this. This is Kay, signing off (for now . . . ).

xoxo, kay

More Posts from Fhaf123 and Others

1 year ago

Honeslty theo seems special compared to the other chimeras.

1.for some reason he was the only one explicitly targeted by the doctors everyone one else already had a organ transplant to the doctors took them but Theo they did it themselves

2.the fact that he survived the experiment even tho almost everyone else died.

3. Like you mentioned he can full shift

It really makes you wonder why they choose him like he was a 9 year old child that they targeted who wasn’t even fully compatible with their experiments until they made him so and he ended up beside mason being one of their only successes 

Cannonically Theo is the only Chimera to be able to full shift and not failed like the rest of the Chimeras (besides not being compatible to be the beast), but what I wanna know is why. What did the DDs do that let's him full shift into a wolf since in season 4 Derek had to evolve(and die) to get it and Malia can full shift due to her being a Coyote but Theos full shift is a wolf and not a Coyote.

Why was Theo the only one with this ability since Tracey couldn't even go full kanima etc. Like did the DDs use a evolved wolfs parts for Theos conversion to a chimera or is it possible Theo already was a wolf and he did die during the conversion process, but "evolved" in a way when they revived him.

But at the same time this doesn't explain Theos heart condition and asthma etc since he potentially shouldn't of had those if he was a born wolf 🤔 as he lost those when he became a chimera. I NEED TO KNOW

This is a kid that was experimented on since he was 9 (and probably knows his own insides better than he should since I doubt they used anesthesia on him at all(cough Theo feels little to no pain theory cough)) and maybe they did somehow use their technology to force a full shift of Theo and due to the dangers chose not to try again or something.

I'm rambling now but I hope people get the idea 😭

1 year ago

Honestly I kinda agree and disagree cause I do wish they were Canon but your so right the ending of teen wolf (not including the movie cause I don’t count that as canon) is such a perfect set up for thiam fanfic the show ends on a cliffhanger so if people want a villain or a treat people can use Monroe but also the way their relationship was left is perfect for different interpretations when writing them some people can write as still hating eachother and have a slow burn or write them at the point that their friends and their both single so you won’t have to find an explanation to break them up with any canon couple

Unpopular opinion but I’m glad Thiam isn’t canon, and not because I think they shouldn’t be because I obviously ship it and I’m obsessed. But the best ao3 fanfiction there is in the world will come from ships that aren’t canon. I think it gives the fan base a wider range of what could’ve been. It leaves the end of canon to be open to interpretation and because of that so many amazing stories have been created. I don’t know about y’all but personally, I enjoy the building of the relationship the most (which Theo and Liam need because they both have to accept their feelings and challenge their opinions on one another). I truly believe these two deserve a build up of their relationship that couldn’t have been fully explored in canon (at least in season 6) and I’m happy that this community has been able to come up with better story lines than Jeff Davis is even capable of. Anyways, that’s my rant.

1 year ago

Honestly we don’t actually know if he did it we just assume cause stiles who wasn’t even their said so. And even if he did push I’m sorry but I just can’t blame him for that he was like 9 we have no idea what the dread doctors did to convince him little kids are so easy to manipulate and mess with like it is not his fault.

Over on Instagram (@thiam_bot ‘s story) Dylan S. confirmed that Theo was supposed to cry after coming out of the ground and learning he killed his sister?!???!! Ummm the levels this would have added to the Tara & Theo lore and whether Theo actively killed his sister…. How could they keep this from the Theo stans???

1 year ago

I also don’t see Theo as a villain cause even tho he did bad things just looking at his past and the situation he was in it’s kinda understandable why he did the things he did my personal interpretation of Theo is that everything he did was out of survival cause he didn’t want to die and I can’t fully blame him for that he definitely could have made better choices but growing up the way he did I get and honestly if I was in his situation I don’t think I would make the best choices either

Sorry, should have been clearer what I meant...

Classic definitions of sociopathy typically include a disregard for right and wrong (not seeing actions as bad or good, just actions) and ignorance of the feelings of others (essentially the opposite of empathy). They are also often characterized as lacking in remorse.

Basically, even if someone is convinced Theo is 100% a villain (which is obviously false imo but I digress), he almost definitely isn't a sociopath because a lot of his plans rely on him understanding other people's emotions. His ability to read people was why he was able to use Liam, move Stiles and Malia out of the way, gain Scott's trust, etc. And then S6 showed him empathize with more than one person, showing remorse, and starting to understand the depths of his former depravity.

I'm just not sure how someone can walk away from that and call him a sociopath, personally.

Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant.

oh, wow. looks like u know a lot. i love that. please, don't apologize, this is awesome! i did give theo a lot of different thoughts but not in this direction, so thank u for sharing with me. i love talking about these things, fr! altho theo is introduced as the bad guy in the beginning, i don't consider him a villain. i mean, he's not innocent, ofc, but villain sounds too much for me.


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2 months ago

I have to respond to this cause I’ve been thinking about this so much

I’ve always excused a lot of theo’s actions and defended him and I’ve always wondered is that actually because of a moral belief I have or am I just biased and really like his character but as I’ve thought about it more I realized I’ve only done this with certain villains and I’ve managed to put villains into 3 categories.

1) are those who I believe are pure evil no matter what happened to them they’ve gone past a point where I can’t see any redeeming qualities and then 2) are villains who have done horribly evil things that I can’t defend but who I still believe are capable and have the chance at redemption and then theirs 3) villains like Theo who I just can’t view as him as evil I can awknoldge that what he did was wrong but I get it he was an abused kid who was stuck in a horrible situation being manipulated while his life was constantly in danger and I can’t judge him cause of that anybody in his situation would do exactly what he did and those that say they wouldn’t probably are lying to themselves we could say oh I wouldn’t be manipulated or even if I was forced to hurt someone else I would rather die but most of us would do it he was 9 and spent his whole life with them the fact that he was able to change and become better proves he wasn’t all that bad plus they forgave argent for trying to kill them and killing how many other supernaturals simply because of his childhood why should Theo be any different

#4 emails part 3

I just wanted to share some emails sent back and forth about my fic Sense of a Foreshortened Future because I need inspiration to start writing it again. In these emails it's referred to as #4 because it was the fourth Thiam fic I ever started writing. I will do my best to remove what I think is spoilers.

Hi hello,

Okay so I have this one question which is: do you think Liam forgave Theo for what he did?

I'd like your initial opinion before you read my brain thoughts on why I'm conflicted about this question.

Brain thoughts (there's a lot unfortunately and they are going to be kinda all over the place):

I have this very basic concept of why I like enemies to lovers, it's not that they love each other because or despite their past actions or who they used to be, they just love each other.

Liam- at least the way I'm writing him- thinks of Theo before Kira's prison and Theo after as basically two different people. Can you forgive someone if your brain isn't connecting that they were the same person who did the hurtful/bad action?

At what point in an abused child's life do they become responsible for the actions they might have been manipulated into doing? At what point do you draw the line in the sand? Is it when they turn a certain age, or are removed from the abuse, or when they have people telling them what they're doing is wrong? Is it fair to judge someone based on a decision(s) they made while being threatened with death? 

Where does manipulation end and personal choice begin? 

Could you ever forgive someone for hurting you and the people you care about like that? I want to say that I'd be able to, but if I came face to face with that I don't know if I would be able to do it. I'd want to be able to forgive. Do you need to forgive someone to love them in a healthy way if you've both grown?

Is forgiveness something that happens all at once or do you need to wake up every day and forgive again?

What even is forgiveness? It could be reconciliation with the person who hurt you. Maybe it's when the negative emotions you used to feel about someone are replaced by positive or neutral ones. It could be when you stop feeling resentment or the need for revenge. Is it forgetting or ignoring or fully acknowledging? 

Maybe it's all of those things.

Do you think Liam forgave Theo for what he did? Does he have to?

From inside a library contemplating the meaning of life, seven

God okay so this is a lot. bravo. You've clearly thought about this a lot so I say to go with whatever you think because I have no idea how to answer this I'm going to be honest.

But no he doesn't have to forgive him, I'm just not sure if he has.

I think maybe Liam has forgiven him in the way that he doesn't feel contempt or want revenge. I think I need Liam in the story to realize that the person he keeps referring to as Evil Theo is the same Theo that he is almost friends with is the same person. I think a lot of the anger he has for Evil Theo is aimed more at the idea that the pack was hurt. I think (later on) Liam will remember what it felt like when he was being manipulated into trying to kill Scott, and how that situation didn't define him as a person because he did the work to be better after that and Liam will kinda apply that to Theo.

1 year ago

BEAUTIFUL PERSON AWARD! Once you are given this award you're supposed to paste it in the asks of 8 people who deserve it. If you break the chain nothing happens, but it's sweet to know someone thinks you're beautiful inside and out (You really don't have to send it to anyone else, I just adore you)

BEAUTIFUL PERSON AWARD! Once You Are Given This Award You're Supposed To Paste It In The Asks Of 8 People
1 year ago

Okay that’s your interpretation I guess and I do see how you can see that in some scenes. Buts that completely ignoring a few episodes ago where mason says you can’t take pain unless you care meaning Theo wouldn’t have been physically able to take Gabe’s pain unless he felt some type of empathy for Gabe in the scene showing a moment of growth. And while you could say Theo just decided not to take masons pain. wouldn’t that have been better cause he gets points with mason for helping him and also would get points with Liam for helping his best friend. Then theirs the fact that Theo didn’t have to help the pack anymore, they didn’t have anything on him to control him, they had broken the sword. He was helping cause he wanted to and while you could say it was manipulation if he truly was still evil he wouldn’t have put himself at risk cause he ultimately would put himself first he wouldn’t drag Liam’s unconscious body cause, that would have been too risky for him or with the ghost riders he would have done what he said and just have left Liam to be captured and get out of town but he still helped and put himself at risk. Also in season 5 he was shown to try to corrupt the pack to try and get them to be darker like him which is why he got stiles to kill Donovan, yet in season 6 he actively stops Liam from killing twice and even gives him advice on his anger, and unlike stiles where it’s in self defense with Liam they would have been full on murder yet he stops him.

Ultimately Theo’s character is kinda ambiguous cause they barely give us anything of his past and what they do give us can interpreted in different ways. This is why a lot of people have different views on Theo so you can’t just say everybody else but you is wrong when theirs things in the show to explicitly show his redemption. But you can still see it as manipulation cause of how his character his. But that’s more to the person but most including I see it as him growing and becoming better.

sorry but this has to be said because i?? can't understand how some people can't seem to fucking grasp that theo taking gabe's pain was NOT character development, and consequently don't understand that therefore it was also NOT genuine??? theo has NEVER fucking shown an ounce of authentic care that was not driven by his own self-interest/desire. he would both do AND say anything to get closer to scott, even AFTER killing him. if given the opportunity, he would do it AGAIN. you think theo wasn't fully aware of the opportunity that presented itself in that situation? WHO did he have the easiest access to that looked up to and trusted scott the most? LIAM. if theo could have a display of "growth" in front of liam, that literally EQUATES to building credibility and trust with SCOTT. word gets around, no one in beacon hills shuts the fuck up about the things they witness. you can't tell me liam wouldn't relay this information to scott, that theo didn't absolutely KNOW that everyone in a thousand mile radius would know how "he'd changed/grown/whatever the fuck." and i don't know how much louder i can say this, BUT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE IN THIS LIFE THAT CANNOT BE REDEEMED, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT REDEMPTION. theo is inherently INCAPABLE of being saved. there's no amount of love, of communication, and no amount of trust that will alter his chemical make up. theo's environment has NEVER be one of safety, and he has NEVER been driven morally to do the right thing. he doesn't CARE when he does the wrong thing as long as it gains him POWER. how many times did he willingly show he did not have any regard for anyone he hurt when it actually came down to it? how many times did he LIE? how many times did he lead people to think he cared WHEN HE DIDN'T? how FAR was he willing to go and how CALLOUS was he when people finally realized what he was doing? and the sheer amount of posts saying "i'm so proud of theo," and "look how much he's grown" make me CRINGE because it's so apparent the blatant lack of understanding of his character. i absolutely PRAY that none of you have encountered or will encounter someone like theo in your life, because those are the type of people who destroy EVERY BIT of you who are, remove you from yourself, strip you of all your prior beliefs, and ruin EVERYTHING they touch. STOP MISTAKING WELL-EXECUTED AND CONTINUED MANIPULTION FOR GROWTH.

7 months ago

Honestly I do think she’s dead but I don’t think she’s gonna stay dead there’s leaks about her coming back and I feel like whatever Billy is doing on the road might be to try and get his family back

guys do we truly believe wanda is dead

i just need joe locke and elizabeth olsen in the same vicinity okay. not a want it’s a need.

8 months ago

reblog this rat until staff gets involved

a rat getting a boop on the nose
1 year ago

He apologized get over it 🙄

fhaf123
fhaf123

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