Me& Seeing Your Latest Posts & Then Realizing We& Have A Sidesystem: O H.

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what is hc-did?

Highly Complex Dissociative Identity Disorder (HC-DID) is a specific structure and function of DID.

HC-DID stems from C-DID, or polyfragmentation. in C-DID, you can see many fragments of alters, lack of other coping skills besides dissociation, subsystems, an active inner world and more.

C-DID comes from trauma being integrated into day to day life, becoming inescapable with no other way to cope.

HC-DID is similar to C-DID in these ways, but differs with the types of traumas that were ingrained into day to day life. HC-DID can be a result of RAMCOA/TBMC. these types of abuse purposefully change the way the system works or how the alters behave/interact with others.

HC-DID systems frequently have programmed alters or a collection of programmed alters (side system), programmed behaviors, extreme amnesiac barriers, hierarchical system structure and very rigid and complex rules and organization.

many HC-DID systems, such as myself, only find out about their programmed status through programmed alters fronting and attempting to either return to the abusers, attempt to harm the body, or other types of programming. i will not be discussing programming in depth, as it can be very triggering.

the difference between the types of systems is important. it will determine the type of therapy needed and the therapist will need to be RAMCOA/TBMC informed to avoid triggering any programmed alters.

C-DID and HC-DID are not the same thing!

Satanic Panic

I saw a post about Satanic Panic, so I felt the need to write an overview of what actually happened for those who don’t know.

What is Satanic Panic?

Satanic Panic can be viewed as either part of the Memory Wars or as an entirely separate entity. If viewed as aligned with the False Memory movement, it might be seen as proof of False Memories and a near complete lack of the existence of ritual abuse. The other takes Satanic Panic as still harmful, but removes the blame from those claiming to have experienced it.

I believe that a crucial part of enabling healing is giving survivors the benefit of the doubt. People who are speaking out about abuse might be doing so for the first time, and are particularly vulnerable to disbelief even if they have told their story before. Talking about maltreatment takes a lot of courage, especially when a stigma already exists around the topic.

Fundie Satanism

That said, the Satanic Panic was weaponized by Christian groups expecting to gain power from it. Some genuinely believed Satanic Ritual Abuse was a primary concern, others knew it was only a face for the politics.

Fundamentalist groups wanted to have the kind of attention they were no longer getting, and the instatement of mandated reporter laws and influx of unsupervised children gave them a fighting cause. They saw that child abuse was becoming popular in media, and they used it as leverage to frighten well-meaning folks into their way of thinking.

Satanic was the word for non-Christian, and Christians were quick to disown anything that hinted at rot within their own organization. Christianity was still popular, and nobody wanted to believe they could be involved with a group that caused harm. So they took any religious abuse, and some non-religious abuses, and slapped Satanic on it.

Satanic Ritual Abuse

Ritual abuse refers to maltreatment that is both standardized and associated with symbols or ideologies. At the time, many kinds of organized (involving multiple perpetrators and victims) and/or coercive (intentionally manipulative) abuse were grouped under that name. Extreme abuse was also called ritual abuse, and we still don’t have a solid definition for that one.

Given that all ritual abuse would have been considered Satanic, fundies basically screwed over anyone who was abused in this specific way. Ritual abuse as we know it now did and does happen. An abuser doesn’t have to believe in their symbolism or ideology to misuse it, and many forms of religion and other structured beliefs can be applied to hurt and intimidate people.

RAMCOA

Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, and Organized Abuse are grouped together under a metric ton of buzz words. The survivors of this collection of abuses are left with research that is out of date, chock full of misinformation, and unable to communicate with people outside of the community.

I know the words are conspiratorial. I get that the books have fear-mongering content. I need people to understand that there is no better option, and pretending bad things don’t happen doesn’t make them go away.

Government Mind Control

Mind control is manipulation with intent. Coercion. Using psychology to get your way. Implanting false memories would be mind control. Again, it doesn’t sound good because cultural contexts have evolved over time and clinical language for this kind of abuse has not. Not all mind control is abusive at all. McDonald’s using targeted ads is mind control. But also training children like dogs is mind control.

There have been government-sponsored projects on mind control. There probably still are. Governments do sketchy things like that for military advancement and because they don’t face consequences, and there was a time where government employees admitted to it. Similar to McDonald’s and their hot coffee campaign, there were some strategic moves to look better to newcomers.

The government has sponsored lots of things they don’t want to acknowledge, and people are still suffering the effects. People in poverty, black and brown communities, and so on can probably agree that government is not synonymous with benevolent.

One of the things the government did was talk to criminal organizations. I don’t know if this is news to anyone, but it was a good way to get information and resources. There were wartime experiments on drugs and interrogation, and those were mind control.

Enough survivors agree about their experiences that it doesn’t seem worthwhile to dismiss them, so until there’s better information we would do well to try to understand them. You don’t have to agree full heartedly to sit with people in their own stories.

Cult Mind Control

I would describe a cult as any group that uses unhealthy practices as a defining feature of their cultural norms. Not everyone agrees on what is or isn’t a cult, and that mostly fine. This is the definition I’m using because it makes the most sense to me in context.

Cults members are not the only ones to use or receive mind control tactics, but the post I saw mentions cults this way. The specific technique is called Trauma Based Mind Control, which is the application of psychological responses to danger and overwhelm for the purposes of an abuser.

TBMC is the primary method for what the RAMCOA survivor community calls programming. Programming is the use of cues associated with PTSD triggers to achieve a desired response in a subject. When programming is done to a small child (under age 6-12, depending on the source), a common response is Dissociative Identity Disorder.

HC-DID

Abusers create alternate self-states within one body to react to the cues given. Depending on how knowledgeable the perpetrator(s) is/are, a child might have a very structured system of alters with little control allocated to them. These systems are designed by and for abusers to create long term obedient subjects.

Not every DID system is formed this way. Most are naturally developed with the induction of trauma in a child’s life. Some organic systems have complex structures anyway, but not for anyone but themselves. These systems are polyfragmented, or C-DID systems.

The level of control and organization found within a programmed system is almost always more than those found in organic systems. In the RAMCOA community, this is called HC-DID. The key difference isn’t true complexity, but the type of prerequisites to qualify.

Highly Complex DID isn’t particularly difficult to groom in a child, but it does require intent. Cult groups, as well as other high control groups, are quite capable of figuring it out by sheer cruelty and observation.

Why Does It Matter?

Making blanket statements about what abuse is and isn’t real doesn’t actually help anyone. While people prone to worry who didn’t experience RAMCOA might feel temporarily safer, it’s likely they’ll figure out they were lied to.

People who did experience it struggle with doubt and disbelief from others, and may have been told that nobody would care. This field is still considered taboo, and there are victims of torture and adjacent who are ashamed or afraid because of the state of the larger population.

I survived RAMCOA. My family and friends survived RAMCOA. Not all of my friends survived RAMCOA. Watch yourself.

Things that don’t make you a bad person:

Displaying “scary” symptoms of mental illness

Being diagnosed with multiple disorders

Having one or various personality disorders

Being diagnosed with NPD, BPD, or ASPD

Having very low empathy, or no empathy

Having symptoms that cause anger, emptiness, or paranoia

Having triggers or “strange” personal boundaries

Needing extra help or accommodations

Having intrusive thoughts about upsetting or scary topics

Trauma Bonding

Imagine you’re 5’5” standing in a pool that is 3 foot deep. It’s comfortable. The water is the perfect temperature, you can freely roam about playing or relaxing. Imagine that once a month, that pool deepens by 2 centimeters. A centimeter is tiny.. you probably aren’t even aware that your body adjusted to the change. You may have had a moment where things felt odd, but you acclimated.

After a year however, your 9 1/2 inches deeper than when you started. It’s still comfortable. You’re still adequately above water. What about two years? Three? Suddenly you realize your 2 inches over your head. You stand on your toes for a while, you can allow your body to float for a while, but your feet always return to try to find its footing. Now you aren’t focused on carefree frolicking.. now you’re focused on survival. You’re tired. You don’t have the strength anymore to signal for help. Why didn’t you get out of the water sooner? Maybe you deserve being in this water. Wouldn’t a normal person have gotten out long before now? The water use to be so amazing though! It felt like everything you ever wanted. It felt safe and peaceful, sure there were storms, but the waters always calmed eventually. You love this pool.. don’t you? You use to. You needed it. Your body felt like it couldn’t survive without it. Your mind was convinced you would never be the same without it.

Trauma bonding is a lot like this. It is a chemical reaction that occurs just like in any other addiction. Your body craves the relationship just like an alcoholic craves alcohol. Just like someone who suffers from a cutting or eating disorder. Just like anyone addicted to gambling, porn, gaming etc.

If you have ever reached subspace, think about that feeling of euphoria, as well as that crash when it’s over. The crash isn’t fun, but that high feels amazing. The only real difference is that D/s is a healthy relationship where both partners support and care about each other. A narcissist loves seeing you crash and knows the higher they take you, the harder you’ll crash. They know the more highs they give you, the more addicted you’ll become. You aren’t being dramatic when you say you feel like you can’t live without this.. your body believes that based on the chemicals regularly created and depleted in your body. It isn’t your fault. But it doesn’t mean you have to stay in the pool. I know it’s hard. I know you’re tired and I know it feels hopeless. I know you just want to breathe. There is help. There are people nearby with life boats, even if you can’t see them. Please check my tags for advice on how to get out.

Thank you for running this blog. I was held in troubled teen industry facilities for all of my teenagerhood, and am severely traumatized as a result, and it's been extremely hard to find words to describe what I went through to other systems or to trauma therapists.

It feels "too much", like there's no way this could all have happened to me, and I've been accused of lying about the organized abuse that went on there. Sometimes it feels almost like i AM lying, though I know I'm not.

Although feeling like I have "too much" trauma is something that I have to continue working on personally, I want to say thank you for pointing me in the direction of a framework that I can research and use that fits me more than any other one I've seen before.

I wish that none of us went through the horrors we went through, but I'm glad that there's a community out there and people talking about the things that have affected me. Thank you again for what you do running this blog.

Before anything else — thank you. This is an incredibly kind message and I'm really glad that you could find solace in this blog. I aim to provide resources that may not be (physically or emotionally) acessible otherwise, and highlight lesser-discussed aspects of RAMCOA.

The troubled teen industry is definitely part of the wider picture of organized abuse, and I wish it was put in that context more. Unfortunately, most discussions of RAMCOA focus on early childhood manifestations, and situations primarily focused on adolescents, adults, seniors aren't as referenced. Basically, the older the victim, the less likely it is to be included in definitions of RAMCOA; which is a shame, because those perspectives are crucial. Abusive care homes & inpatient facilities, prisons, and yes, troubled teen facilities are all forms of organized abuse in my mind, but the strong correlation with pedophile rings and cults has... Alienated? Many people from describing their experiences as OA.

I totally understand the feeling of having "too much trauma", and I feel like many survivors in general, not just ones of RAMCOA, can relate to that sentiment. "It's just too unlikely for all these things to have happened," I'll say to myself, "I must be exaggerating." Something that's helped me is the idea that some predators can smell blood in the water, and if all you know is hardship, it's hard to break out of hardship. Experiencing layers of trauma isn't... Rare, and you're not lying about it.

Once again, thank you. If you need any resources specific to the troubled teen industry, let me know. There's not a ton of research on it in the context of RAMCOA like I said, but I'm sure I'll find something of use.

Wishing you a gentle and fulfilling recovery. Aisling

Coping Mechanisms Masterlist

Thoughts to break the cycle

this is temporary if I believe it is

I AM NOT my perception, or my thoughts

I am the observer of the thoughts

my mind is protecting me and is stressed from not knowing how to fix it. Thank you for protecting me but it will be okay

the negative thoughts are just a symptom of depression, dissociation/dpdr, c-ptsd, or anxiety or all of the above

thoughts are just like another one of the 5 senses. Like how you can perceive textures, smells, tastes, sounds. Your thoughts allow you to perceive an experience. But you are not your nose. You are not your mouth. You are not your ears. You are not your hand it’s just a hand that’s connected to your body. And so You are not your thoughts. You’re the one experiencing these sensations you are not the sensations.

Even if you genetically are predisposed or your genetics or brain chemistry has caused the issue. Especially in this case your thoughts do not define who you are they are just a reaction your brain is creating to protect you from something it thinks is a threat.

self hate and depression is a coping mechanism: your body wants you to be better, to be perfect to avoid something negative that hurts and self hate is the way it decided to go but it doesn’t have to be that way. Tell your mind “thank you” and “I love you but it’s okay.” “We are safe” and “I am enough.”

I try to remember my goals: how I want to be happy, the things I want to add to my life that will make me feel calmer and happier. (If you don’t have any goals or ideas think of anything you want in this world to achieve, or learn, or earn and write it down and imagine how it would feel if you had it right now. It helps push you to realize you can shape your life how you want)

that someone in this world loves you. If you can’t name anyone. Your own body loves you. It keeps you alive and gives you the ability to experience things like eating yummy food, being able to pet an animal and feel how soft their fur is, being able to look up at the sky and see stars or clouds. Simple every day things that we take for granted because we get so stressed out from life and drama. Sometimes we forget we could lose our eyesight and we wouldn’t be able to see things or people that we love. We could get injured and never be able to walk, run or jump again. We could lose our ability to breathe and be hooked up to a ventilator. I like to write down anything I can think of to be grateful for everyday in my journal and it makes me feel less depressed, less anxious,and excited to be able to just .. be alive especially when I want to not be alive anymore

I remind myself that when I was a baby I didn’t have any thoughts I didn’t know shit. The way I grew up and had to experience life made it so I perceive life the way I do. I like to imagine if I was a blank slate what are the different ways I could look at my life? What are the ways I can decide to look at situations or myself? People don’t just wake up and love themselves they were taught to feel loved. Just like how we don’t wake up with these negative self hateful thoughts. We got them from somewhere. We can choose if we want to still believe our perceptions or not. But learning to be happy and to love ourself is like a skill. Just like how learning to hate ourselves took time and repeated experiences.

Self care / Self love activities

imagining an older version of myself comforting present me. And imagining myself currently to comfort past me during traumatic moments

bubble baths

napping with soothing audios, or sleep meditations

walking outside

calling a friend

visiting a family member or friend

Write yourself a note when you’re happy to yourself and read it when you’re upset

Make a voice memo give future you a pep talk, positive affirmations, or even guided meditations and listen to it when you’re upset

lighting a candle and writing down an intention and meditating or you can pray if you believe in a god or have a religion. Or if you just believe in the universe and law of attraction

journaling

cleaning or tidying up a little

eating a yummy but healthy snack

cooking or baking

(if I’m severely not okay) holding an ice cube, running my hands in cold water and splashing the water in my face, taking a cold shower, taking a rubber band on my wrist and snapping it back

reading a book

watching my favorite tv show or movie

watching a comedy

playing music and forcing myself to dance (when I’m alone of course 😅)

yoga

exercising

watching cute animal videos on YouTube

Singing in the shower

Adult coloring books

some type of video about philosophy that reminds me that I’m not alone and we are all lost

some type of video that reminds me how beautiful life can be

some type of video that reminds me that I’m not in control of my circumstance, my genetics, or the world but I’m in control of how I react that I’m the one that gives power to my thoughts

Breaking thought patterns, bad habits and doing self care every day helps immensely. Over time it gets easier and easier to feel okay and to even feel happy. But never stop doing these things for the rest of your life. You either feed the negative thoughts or you feed the positive. You either feed the negative habits or you feed the bad. You get to choose. Seek help, and be gentle with yourself. Healing isn’t linear.

Adhd really is like... bedroom is slightly messy it would be nice to tidy it some

bedroom is very messy I really should tidy up

bedroom is chaotic I NEED to tidy but my brain says no. Why. Whyyy.

I guess I’ll just have to watch where I step in here for the rest of my life. The mess is everywhere. I’m one with the mess.

A sudden Need to Clean™ makes you get the room looking like some fancy homes magazine cover, and you think “I’ll never ever let it get that bad again, and then...

bedroom is slightly messy (uh oh)

hope this is okay to ask but how would a system who suspects RAMCOA figure out what their programming type is if they show signs of a few different kinds? alternatively; are different techniques sometimes programmed together?

(Warning ahead of time; I will not be censoring any words or topics here. Also, I talk a lot.)

I want to emphasize ahead of time: most cases of RAMCOA do not involve programming. RAMCOA exists on a wide spectrum, and programming is extreme conditioning, starting as a young child, that specifically creates dissociative barriers (thus, creating a system) which requires consistent access and organization. Most cases of RAMCOA do have some levels of conditioning, but well defined programs are considerably less common. You can be a RAMCOA survivor without programming (or, in our case, loosely defined and poorly executed programs that border on "normal" conditioning).

Anyways...

I've recommended this before, but track your symptoms. RAMCOA relies on patterns & consistency, but especially programming. Track emotions, internal system happenings, switches, and their triggers the best you can (whether using a digital medium like Notion or a physical journal). Being able to correlate specific dates & stimuli to symptoms will make a huge difference. Part of how we figured out we have some sort of proto-Delta (aggression, fearlessness, emotional detachment, etc.) programming is through noting how we reacted to wounds/blood, both ours and others'; how specific parts front or come closer to front during times of stress or fear; vague memories of forced perpetration being triggered by certain weapons, scents, or bodily positions; etc.

It is honestly way rarer to find a system with one kind of program in this context. This because nearly all have some sort of basic obedience training, often referred to as "alpha" programming. Another near-universal program is some sort of access program: basically, a way in for programmers to call alters to the front, modify & implant programs, etc. Other kinds of programs are stacked on top of this, relating to whatever the victim's "specialization" would be. For example, sex trafficking that utilized programming would result in a victim probably having some sort of transport program (often to fall asleep on command so they do not know the route or location), one or multiple of the many sexual related programs, an amnesia on command program, and typically, some sort of therapy & abreaction interference program. And that's just the bare bones.

Additionally, some victims may not have a singular specialization, possibly because they were some sort of experimental ground for new programs or new combinations of programs, their group was not very organized or changed focus mid-programming of the victim, or they were the child of higher-ups in the group and expected to perform more complex roles.

If by "technique", you mean different methods of implantation or organization, that is also somewhat par for the course. Some groups change goal or formation over time, others may on-board programmers with a different "style" (an organized crime syndicate utilizing a programmer with a military background, for example). I know that only some of our system is structured strictly & militaristically, because one of our abusers was in the military.

Also... Don't be afraid of being wrong. Sorting out what happened with RAMCOA is confusing on multiple levels—trauma & dissociation warps memories, abusers will lie and trick victims, what happened is often decade(s) old, etc. You are allowed to question, research, and, if you want to, join survivor's spaces. It will be a long journey, but you are not the first and, unfortunately, quite definitely not the last.

I hope your answers come quickly, painlessly, and clearly. - Aisling

hi! do u know anything about the term “childhood torture” vs general childhood abuse manipulation and gaslighting… and mind control vs manipulation and gaslighting? some people also say though who go through childhood torture are also automatic ramcoa victims but I’m unsure abt that? if it’s done by a family and not an organization would it still be ramcoa? or what exactly is sadistic or severe abuse vs regular abuse.. bc I see a lot of people specifying ramcoa as the most severe abuse or talking about “severe abuse/trauma” vs regular abuse ..

To be honest I do not think RA/OA is the "most severe abuse" nor do I think it is particularly conducive to rank abuse on that kind of scale. Yes some stuff is objectively pretty bad but I think framing RAMCOA as "the most severe" is the exact reason that so many people are suspecting they have RA or polyfragmentation: because they think that it would HAVE to be really bad if they are experiencing the things they are, when in reality whatever it is they experienced was clearly already really bad. (And since we're on this topic, being triggered by RAMCOA or other forms of extreme abuse does not mean you are a survivor. Even nonsurvivors get triggered by this)

Also again RAMCOA is not all equivalent. A trafficking survivor will not have the same experiences as a child soldier nor are their experiences now somehow equivalent. If we insist on using a scale like this then I would say if you are alive you have not experienced the worst thing, because most "worst things" to experience will kill you.

"Childhood torture" is not really a specific term, it is just a type of experience, similar to 'sexual abuse' or 'physical abuse'. It is torture you experienced in childhood, with no other requirements.

Torture can sometimes be conducted by a single individual, though it is difficult and will not be effective for any sort of psychological control. Torture conducted this way is not for any end goal but for the perpetrator's emotional release. So not every torture survivor is a RAMCOA survivor. Most of the time, torture does have an organized abuse component, for various reasons but the most glaring one being the amount of resources required to torture a person without anyone else finding out, which is why many torture survivors are RAMCOA survivors. Torture typically has both a physical and psychological component. Gaslighting is not torture. Manipulation is not torture. Gaslighting and manipulation can be a part of torture but there is kind of a big difference between something like waterboarding versus gaslighting. Legally, torture is very loosely defined but this is more due to the wide variety of methods people come up with in torture that courts want to be able to define as torture, not that torture is itself vague or difficult to differentiate. For example, forcing people to drink until they get water poisoning and slowly die is a documented form of torture. Which is a really weird thing to do and probably not something a court could come up with listing if they wanted to do a list of actions that qualify as torture. An example of psychological torture would be being forced to watch or participate in someone you love being tortured or killed.

The term severe sadistic abuse is really hard because it IS vague but there is not really a good way to term it without getting into details that can be triggering. Severe sadistic abuse in academic writings includes torture and terrorism survivors, and frequently cites the Holocaust as an example. If that gives you a good baseline idea of what the line is. I think when discussing academic terms it is important to remember that terms are created because they serve a function. If severe sadistic abuse was equivalent to gaslighting, manipulation, they would not have created the term because both emotional and psychological abuse already exist as terms. For example, gaslighting is only a term because it is not just lying but an explicit and intentional attempt to manipulate someone's perception of themselves and their reality and make them reliant on an abuser to tell what is true or not. If "lying" or "manipulation" fit then there would be no need for the term.