Do You Have Sources For Any Of The Things You've Been Talking About Lately (the Different Programming

what is it?

schizoaffective disorder is a psychotic and mood disorder that affects a relatively small number of people. only 0.32% of people in the population will be diagnosed with this disorder, according to the national institute of health.

there are two sub-types of schizoaffective disorder: depressive type and bipolar type. i happen to have the bipolar type. the only difference between depressive and bipolar type is the presence of mania.

speaking of symptoms, schizoaffective disorder includes the following psychotic symptoms and mood symptoms: → hallucinations → delusions → disorganized thinking → manic episodes (only present in bipolar type) → depressive episodes

in order to be diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, you must be showing both psychotic and mood symptoms for a certain amount of time.

what causes it?

like with most disorders, the exact cause is unknown as there are many factors that have been considered and dismissed. 

people with a close relative that has been diagnosed with either schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, or bipolar disorder have a higher chance of developing the disorder. factors like extreme stress and drug-use may play in some cases as well.

there are also some experts that say trauma can be a determining base factor of the disorder as the distress can disrupt brain chemistry.

how is it treated?

like with most disorders, schizoaffective disorder can be treated through medications and psychotherapy.

the types of medications include: → antipsychotics → mood stabilizers → antidepressants

and therapies, such as cognitive behavioural therapy and family therapy, can help out in developing self-regulating skills and provide more information on what to do during bad episodes.

i think i have schizoaffective disorder. what should i do?

if the above description sounds similar to what you might be experiencing, bring up your concerns to your primary care provider to be referred to a psychiatrist or a psychologist in your area. 

however, if you feel like a danger to yourself, admit yourself to your nearest mental hospital, where you will be given many resources and a therapist upon coming out along with medications.

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sources, (x, x).

why do people say programming doesn’t exist and that it must be false memories? /gen

Lots of reasons.

Most people don't like to think about other people getting hurt. They also especially do not like to think that children are being hurt. And even more they do not like to think that child abuse is occurring while someone else who could have stopped it was there. This is why when child abuse survivors of any kind tell family members/friends who weren't abusive that so and so abused them, the immediate reaction is typically denial. Whether they accept it later on or not, the initial reaction is usually defense and denial. Even when they do accept it there is often a degree of "how could I have missed that" that these individuals express either to the survivor or to their own friends. People want to keep and uphold the view that most people around them are good. The concept of "groups of people who all decided to abuse children together" is contradictory to that worldview so they discard it, but if you ask them about specific things like child soldiers and trafficking that they have probably heard of (and also probably associate with Poor Uncivilized Third World Countries(tm) instead of happening in their own countries), they will usually say that's real.

Another reason is that most peoples' idea of programming is from media, mostly revolving around like...super powers or a person becoming basically a robot or they think it's all like cults in the woods or whatever. They think TBMC is some sci-fi thing, they don't know what it looks like, and they aren't thinking about the abuse part. And I do think that it kind of sucks that MC is the term because it does sound like some sci-fi/dystopian thing just from the name. It sounds very silly if you don't know much about it. In reality it is pretty boringly based in psychological responses to torture.

Another reason is that FMSF was very successful in their smear campaign despite being made up nearly entirely of parents who had gotten successfully sued for child abuse by their children. The fact that academics even marginally acknowledged them was a mistake IMO. Not to say that I'm not like the other girls but if a group of parents like this started making shit up around me I would simply roll my eyes and ignore them. Unfortunately, psychiatric abuse exists and the famous ones kind of screwed everybody else. Most famous one being Sybil. Instead of getting mad at psychiatric abuse occurring it became a focus on how DID itself is fake and abuse memories a person has discussed in therapy is therefore also fake.

Another is a community issue. There are individuals who saw RA survivors getting attention from court cases and decided that they would Also like to get attention and would make up stories which would eventually get debunked OR they sounded so fictional (because they were) that most people then assumed that all RA survivors were like that. There were and still are also survivors who were so desperate to be believed that they would tell their stories in great detail--except their stories usually also included lies that their groups told them which discredited them. Most of these are lies that the average person would find ridiculous and factually incorrect and so nobody would believe the rest of what they were saying.

Lastly, many RAMCOA survivors are simply not palatable. A lot of us are not the cutesy socially acceptable kind of survivors that people feel pity for and want to give a blanket. Many RAMCOA survivors especially when they first get out or first start processing this are aggressive, lash out, behave erratically, make no sense to anyone, have no/low empathy, say very socially inappropriate things, etc. This goes double if isolation from the rest of the world was a big part of the abuse. And to be clear I do not mean like...ghosts their friends or is a little snarky or has a breakdown sometimes in a cute little corner with quiet little sobs. I mean shit that you would get shunned by polite society and get the cops called on you for. The ones that don't escape (either stayed in or the group dissolved/faded over time) tend to be more stable appearing than escapees but they're still not the type of survivor people care about.

Always judging

Does McLean Hospital Have Ties To MK Ultra?

Claims made, the evidence, the known facts, and the falsehoods.

CW/Brief: This talks about a government ran mind control project that took place in 1953-1973. Claims recently have resurfaced as a reaction to a contentious video that was released. This video was greatly contested by people with DID and professionals in psychiatry and psychology alike for it's poor handling of subject material and violation of ethics. This will not go fully in depth on the tactics used but addresses more recent claims about the hospital that originally hosted this video. There will be usage of words like torture. This also will mention a prolific case where the victim ended up becoming a terrible person- murder may be mentioned. This case was only brought up due to its prolific nature.

READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

Terminology used

RAMCOA: A specific subset of purposeful abuse, known to primarily be done by groups. Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, and Organized Abuse.

TBMC: Trauma/Torture Based Mind Control.

Mk-Ultra: A government run CIA project/operation meant to try and mind control agents and civilians alike. This has heavy ties to TBMC.

Syscourse: System based discourse that tends to happen surrounding plurality or multiplicity (a self-schema) and DID/OSDD-1 a dissociative disorder that often has the Alters be highly focused upon. Syscourse usually culminates in fights between those with "endogenic plurality" and "CDDs" (CDDs are known as Complex Dissociative Disorders) we engage in this on our main and mention it as it does tie into the sorts of reasons the claims surfaced recently.

TLDR; There are possible and reasonable claims that McLean plausibly could have had a hand in Mk-Ultra in the past. It is fact that they have ties to Mk-Ultra, by association with Harvard Medical. The ties do not by any means implicate them in any form of guilt. There is no evidence that McLean for certain ever had any involvement in the past, however it is plausible. There is absolutely NO reason to suspect the hospital currently in the year of 2023, fifty years after the project (if they even had any hand in it), has been closed. The resurfacing of this discussion happened due to victims of similar experiences (TBMC/RAMCOA) becoming triggered by the aforementioned video and finding this information out and not doing their due diligence to handle any of it with the care it deserves. This was not the time to bring this up, this is a separate discussion that should have never been tied to the video. The current way the claims and accusations are being handled and the fear mongering is a net negative both for this discussion and for causing unnecessary distrust in doctors who are there to genuinely help. Additionally there are false claims mixed in with the true ones, such as the claim that McLean continued to partake in horrific experiments until 1987, which has no source other than a known conspiracy theorist.

Full Post

We were planning to stay fully out of syscourse for a little while but seeing as things/discussions for RAMCOA got crosstagged as syscourse we ended up running into something that we want to thoroughly stamp out the idea of. To preface this, yes, we are a RAMCOA survivor. The full details we have stated ever are very minimal, we are purposefully hiding a shit ton of things. However what remains is the fact we are a victim of TBMC, our RAMCOA was more focused upon MC than any other aspect. As such we took a very specific interest in this situation. Feel free to tag this post as syscourse if you want, we do not consider it such ourselves as this pertains directly to a type of trauma.

There is actually a loose connection to be made between McLean hospital and MK-Ultra. McLean Hospital had ties to Harvard Medical, which has been purportedly linked to MK-Ultra. The one declassified governmental mind control project.

This dates back all the way to 1977, this is not the only claim of Harvard's involvement either. In fact anyone who is morbidly curious may know of a famous case very, very well. Theodore Kaczynski, otherwise known as the Unabomber. It is a known fact that this man was a victim of MK Ultra and experimentation by Harvard. This has been known for a very long time.

To be clear TBMC does not excuse murder. We as a survivor of TBMC ourselves are not a danger, however it must be recognized that in some cases people are not criminally responsible due to their mental functionality. This is similar to a case where someone pleads insanity- the actions are heinous and still were UNDENIABLY his doing. We are not saying he should not be blamed, nor are we making light of his victims. Explanations are not excuses.

Some minimal sources.

The Atlantic

Harvard and the Making of the Unabomber

A series of purposely brutalizing psychological experiments may have confirmed Theodore Kaczynski’s still-forming belief in the evil of scie

Exploring your mind

The Harvard Experiment that Led to the Unabomber

Although he participated in a Harvard experiment and is extremely smart, Ted Kaczynski is now serving time in a maximum-security...

These are only one of many many articles, videos, deep dives, and talks about this situation and the irreparable damage that the way human experimentation in the USA has messed people up in more recent times.

If you had any awareness of the general situation surrounding these things you would realize the claims are predicated upon a long standing history of Harvard Medical specifically having definitive ties and accusations to ties with MK-Ultra. The accusations have not arisen out of thin air, this isn't a new claim, this has been brought up numerous times in the past. These claims came well before the current issue surrounding one man's horrendous presentation on DID- the DSM-4 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 4th Edition) even was made after accusations of Harvard Medical being tied to Mk-Ultra.

Harvard Medical spawned McLean Hospital

People are making an association and are wondering if this was one of the ways that Harvard Medical along with the CIA accessed victims. This wonder does however have no definitive answers from what we can gather and should not be treated as fact.

Additionally many people have reasonable and not unfounded fears that said practices never truly stopped. However, these for the current day and year, 2023 are unfounded claims. A reasonable fear or reasonable feeling still does not always denote truth in what is feared. It is reasonable for us to fear the Christian faith given our history, however it factually is not pure evil and can be practiced healthily. (Not a great comparison but we had to think of something)

The debunked accusations of specifically McLean hospital being involved was from 1987 in which a conspiracy theorist claimed McLean was still doing these horrific experiments and tortures. The thing that was disproven was that they had continued to be involved, not that they had never been involved. To our understand the difference in these two cases is that there is numerous possible claims that McLean may have been involved in the past but only one which claimed this from a very untrustworthy source.

There is currently no evidence to prove they were not involved. However there is also seemingly no evidence to prove Mclean Hospital were involved as well. Due to the connections in administration in that time period, it is reasonable to conclude that it is plausible that Mclean did contribute all the way back when MK-Ultra was active, just as much as it is reasonable to conclude it is plausible they did not.

Does this mean it should be treated as fact? No. But the RAMCOA survivors who immediately learn of these connections and assume the worst are having a reasonable emotional reaction when paired with what RAMCOA survivors like us have experienced. The feelings are reasonable, but the fact of the matter in many cases just seems to not be there.

By denying the plausibility you are plausibly denying the experience of victims who are still alive to this day. As such many people (us included) still feel weird about definitively saying that there is no chance this happened in the past. However we must be fully aware and acknowledge that there is not enough evidence of this being the case, therefore it is wrong from a factual point to say that they were involved.

Again, does this reflect the modern day?

Absolutely not. I would say that to our knowledge the majority of doctors at the hospital who are (especially) younger than their 50 are not involved nor should be implicated. Anyone who was a child when Mk-Ultra launched and/or concluded should be automatically removed from a list of possible perpetrators. Additionally it will only harm what we do believe could be good doctors who had no idea of these things, many people today are far removed from things like Mk-Ultra, many if not most may have had no awareness of the past allegations.

You can address the fact that worries or claims that McLean Hospital or Harvard Medical today are doing this as false, without fully denying the plausibility of a dark past. Especially when it comes to Harvard Medical.

(Side note, just because something came form another organization does not necessarily mean they did the same practices. Additionally, I would argue, given the history of government projects only those directly involved with the experimentation would be aware of what was occurring and not all workers even within the hospital).

We took it upon ourselves to look into it initially- we already knew about the Unabomber being an Mk-Ultra victim, we only recently knew he had ties to Harvard Medical. And yes, we have found a few claims that the specific hospital he was put in when tortured was McLean, but those have only been on articles that require one to sign up or buy fully access which we are not doing.

Please just try and understand why some RAMCOA survivors have reacted the way they have, do more than just look on reddit or see that one lunatic claiming McLean was continuing on Mk-Ultra in 1987. Because what many are doing is resorting to a long time form of systemic oppression against RAMCOA survivors. The default of calling all of them delusional and conspiracy theorists. It is not delusion to see something so similar to your experience and make a connect even if it is faulty, delusion is another mental health issue entirely.

Acknowledge how things can be emotional reactions, while also acknowledging the bits of truth within those reactions. We do not think that this being brought up in response to specifically the DID video is good- we think it creates fear and leads to fear mongering about hospitals and doctors. This is something that should be brought up and addressed in its own right. But the timing was poor, and the reasons behind it were filled and fueled with people who were triggered in a variety of ways and were not actually discussing it out of concern for the victims. (We are usually not big on what the motivations behind something are but when your motivations end up seeping through and possibly harming an important discussion it does become a concern.)

Instagram credit: comewithkris

“Having DID is rare-“

Ok and being a beekeeper isn’t the most common profession ever but I sure see a lot of them when I search “beekeepers” in online spaces.

Things we as a RAMCOA survivor want non-survivors to know

This is going to be emotional but this has also been a long time coming. Most of our 34 drafts on this account have been on this topic and today something happened that was just the last straw for us. If you are not a survivor sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. It's our turn now. You are privileged comparatively on this regard- whether you like it or not.

Do not silence RAMCOA survivors in favor of people with "false memories"

I have no idea why this is something that needs to be said because you would assume it would be common decency but apparently a lot of non-RAMCOA survivors seem to be completely unaware of how fucked up it is to say.

Not only has false memory syndrome been thoroughly debunked- but the only time someone has anything close is when they have a disorder that makes them prone to delusions. In which case that is a delusion. Stop blaming survivors who are working to recover and possibly save the lives of others who currently as you read this are actively being tortured, for a disorder that most people are born with and has literally nothing to do with us. Stop using "some people have delusions" as a backhanded way to harm RAMCOA survivors.

I am sick and tired of people making it clear they care far more about people with "false memories" than they do for real torture survivors.

Do not tell a RAMCOA survivor to their face you have had false memories of the torture they actively endured. It is incredibly insensitive and is a mockery of the torture they experienced.

And if one more "person" makes the claim that RAMCOA survivors talking about our experiences, the things that were done to us and others, is putting people with a disorder we didn't cause in danger- I will snap. We didn't give anyone a disorder- we didn't manifest your fucking delusions. You can work through your delusions in therapy- we have physical and mental injuries that will never fully heal from our REAL experience. It is such a disgusting and selfish thing to do. You are not allies- you are harming all survivors.

Stop telling RAMCOA survivors to never look into things

It's funny how this is often done in order to try and aid and help us, considering not having the terminology almost got us killed.

Non-ramcoa survivors telling RAMCOA survivors that talking about RAMCOA is dangerous and they should never look into it are actively harming programmed systems by triggering silence programs and making them self-destruct and get less access to aid, community, and terminology to be able to explain experiences to a medical professional and there has been little to no proof that learning about RAMCOA has ever killed a RAMCOA survivor.

People who push this idea that "it's too dangerous for you :((" and shut down all ramcoa survivors and then try to destroy our community terms like HC-DID (highly complex; this is used to described programmed systems that are polyfragmented and their complex structures) because of some idea of being a glorious savior to us- are just being incredibly selfish and insensitive. It has never been about helping us, not ever. It has been about you and people like you wanting to feel like you're oh so cool and good and special. That you "really care" about the likes of the poor weak incapable RAMCOA survivors.

We don't need to be babied. We fucking crawled out of the bowels of hell itself and have been through things that people often don't survive. Some of us have to fight programs every day- before and after knowing about our survivor status. Omega programming didn't start when we learned about RAMCOA- it first kicked off when we were nine years old. You failing to educate yourselves on the way programming functions yet insisting on speaking for us and people like us is infuriating. We are not children and even the ones that are do not fucking need you to baby them.

The only people we have ever seen proclaim talking about how "speaking on RAMCOA is bad and dangerous!!!!" are one of two groups; Non ramcoa-survivors speaking for us, and RAMCOA survivors with a program actively causing them to say this. In case you don't know much about programming, there is programs that make you try and silence both yourself and other people. This is one of the most well known types of programs. I am sorry to say this but we genuinely believe that most if not all RAMCOA survivors saying this are having a program run.

People pushing this message onto us literally triggered our silence program for so long we couldn't say much to our therapist until we learned terminology. It took that for us to be put on a disappearance watch list. This community idea could have gotten us killed. We were in literal danger because we could not manage to tell our therapist about our experiences because others had said the very same words our abusers did. "Don't tell anyone."

RAMCOA perpetrators do fucking everything they can to make sure we never speak. You are aiding abusers by contributing to our silence and you are possibly sending people to die. This is not a thing I can be lighthearted about. This is something that has made our system have alters that deeply hate and despise anyone who contributed to it with us and the same to anyone who may have done so to others.

Edit: For those who struggle to interpret this- no we never said you should randomly spur of the moment look into RAMCOA with no safety nets. That should be common sense. We also literally never said that anywhere. I don't know why people are so incapable to read what we say. We're autistic we say what we mean.

Trauma Bonding

Imagine you’re 5’5” standing in a pool that is 3 foot deep. It’s comfortable. The water is the perfect temperature, you can freely roam about playing or relaxing. Imagine that once a month, that pool deepens by 2 centimeters. A centimeter is tiny.. you probably aren’t even aware that your body adjusted to the change. You may have had a moment where things felt odd, but you acclimated.

After a year however, your 9 1/2 inches deeper than when you started. It’s still comfortable. You’re still adequately above water. What about two years? Three? Suddenly you realize your 2 inches over your head. You stand on your toes for a while, you can allow your body to float for a while, but your feet always return to try to find its footing. Now you aren’t focused on carefree frolicking.. now you’re focused on survival. You’re tired. You don’t have the strength anymore to signal for help. Why didn’t you get out of the water sooner? Maybe you deserve being in this water. Wouldn’t a normal person have gotten out long before now? The water use to be so amazing though! It felt like everything you ever wanted. It felt safe and peaceful, sure there were storms, but the waters always calmed eventually. You love this pool.. don’t you? You use to. You needed it. Your body felt like it couldn’t survive without it. Your mind was convinced you would never be the same without it.

Trauma bonding is a lot like this. It is a chemical reaction that occurs just like in any other addiction. Your body craves the relationship just like an alcoholic craves alcohol. Just like someone who suffers from a cutting or eating disorder. Just like anyone addicted to gambling, porn, gaming etc.

If you have ever reached subspace, think about that feeling of euphoria, as well as that crash when it’s over. The crash isn’t fun, but that high feels amazing. The only real difference is that D/s is a healthy relationship where both partners support and care about each other. A narcissist loves seeing you crash and knows the higher they take you, the harder you’ll crash. They know the more highs they give you, the more addicted you’ll become. You aren’t being dramatic when you say you feel like you can’t live without this.. your body believes that based on the chemicals regularly created and depleted in your body. It isn’t your fault. But it doesn’t mean you have to stay in the pool. I know it’s hard. I know you’re tired and I know it feels hopeless. I know you just want to breathe. There is help. There are people nearby with life boats, even if you can’t see them. Please check my tags for advice on how to get out.

I learned about compassion fatigue for the first time when I was a 911 operator for two and a half years. Now I’m experiencing it not from a particular job but from moving through life for so many years stuck in the constant “fawn” trauma response. I compulsively gave and gave and gave for so long that I now have literally nothing left. When I first stopped (for survival) compulsively giving to people out of an empty cup I realized I really had no sense of identity outside of helping people... I was overwhelmed with feelings of fear, obligation and guilt... I’m on a journey now of learning to give to myself before I give to anyone else and it’s honesty really hard. It feels “wrong” but I know that’s conditioning from my childhood. I learned I had to abandon myself to survive. Now my body is forcing me to listen to my needs.

hope this is okay to ask but how would a system who suspects RAMCOA figure out what their programming type is if they show signs of a few different kinds? alternatively; are different techniques sometimes programmed together?

(Warning ahead of time; I will not be censoring any words or topics here. Also, I talk a lot.)

I want to emphasize ahead of time: most cases of RAMCOA do not involve programming. RAMCOA exists on a wide spectrum, and programming is extreme conditioning, starting as a young child, that specifically creates dissociative barriers (thus, creating a system) which requires consistent access and organization. Most cases of RAMCOA do have some levels of conditioning, but well defined programs are considerably less common. You can be a RAMCOA survivor without programming (or, in our case, loosely defined and poorly executed programs that border on "normal" conditioning).

Anyways...

I've recommended this before, but track your symptoms. RAMCOA relies on patterns & consistency, but especially programming. Track emotions, internal system happenings, switches, and their triggers the best you can (whether using a digital medium like Notion or a physical journal). Being able to correlate specific dates & stimuli to symptoms will make a huge difference. Part of how we figured out we have some sort of proto-Delta (aggression, fearlessness, emotional detachment, etc.) programming is through noting how we reacted to wounds/blood, both ours and others'; how specific parts front or come closer to front during times of stress or fear; vague memories of forced perpetration being triggered by certain weapons, scents, or bodily positions; etc.

It is honestly way rarer to find a system with one kind of program in this context. This because nearly all have some sort of basic obedience training, often referred to as "alpha" programming. Another near-universal program is some sort of access program: basically, a way in for programmers to call alters to the front, modify & implant programs, etc. Other kinds of programs are stacked on top of this, relating to whatever the victim's "specialization" would be. For example, sex trafficking that utilized programming would result in a victim probably having some sort of transport program (often to fall asleep on command so they do not know the route or location), one or multiple of the many sexual related programs, an amnesia on command program, and typically, some sort of therapy & abreaction interference program. And that's just the bare bones.

Additionally, some victims may not have a singular specialization, possibly because they were some sort of experimental ground for new programs or new combinations of programs, their group was not very organized or changed focus mid-programming of the victim, or they were the child of higher-ups in the group and expected to perform more complex roles.

If by "technique", you mean different methods of implantation or organization, that is also somewhat par for the course. Some groups change goal or formation over time, others may on-board programmers with a different "style" (an organized crime syndicate utilizing a programmer with a military background, for example). I know that only some of our system is structured strictly & militaristically, because one of our abusers was in the military.

Also... Don't be afraid of being wrong. Sorting out what happened with RAMCOA is confusing on multiple levels—trauma & dissociation warps memories, abusers will lie and trick victims, what happened is often decade(s) old, etc. You are allowed to question, research, and, if you want to, join survivor's spaces. It will be a long journey, but you are not the first and, unfortunately, quite definitely not the last.

I hope your answers come quickly, painlessly, and clearly. - Aisling