Random Scene I Would Like To See In The Upcomming Avatar Movies

Spider Socorro Protection Squad

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Neytiri’s “shame” about her children

I’ve been wanting to talk about this for a while because I saw that some time ago this topic was discussed in the fandom, and even though I’m a bit late, I wanted to share my thoughts. This is about this line from the original/previous script of ATWOW ofc, which stirred up a debate between the fans, especially after the Avatar account made a video about the scene while showing/underlining that specific sentence.

First of all, it’s important to specify that a) this was not the final script of the movie, and b) things have been a bit exaggerated and framed in the wrong way from the get go, by the Avatar official account in the first place. To be honest, I haven’t really followed the discourse with much attention, but from what I’ve gathered, I feel like the discussions people had about this were, imo, based on a misinterpretation of the core meaning of what this infamous sentence means: Neytiri is not ashamed of her children per se, but rather she is ashamed of the fact that her children have Sky People’s blood in them.

And yes, it’s a very different thing. To me, it’s not that Neytiri feels shame about who her children are as people. Just because she feels “shame” about their blood, it doesn’t mean she is ashamed about them, as in who they are as individuals. Nothing will ever change the fact that she loves her children more than anything else, and with no doubt considers them perfect just like every mother does; but it’s still true that she could feel some sort of shame about the fact that her children have the blood of their oppressors running through their veins. I don’t think it’s a “ew my kids are dirty half-bloods and they disgust me” kind of thing (like a lot of people framed it to be), but rather a “I love my children with my whole heart, but I still don’t like and struggle to accept the fact that part of them is human, like the people who murdered half of my family, massacred my clan and destroyed my home and life” kind of thing.

And this is not to say that this feeling is not “problematic”. But, considering everything she has been through, it’s also both extremely natural and irrational. I’m sure that she feels very conflicted emotions about this. She 100% technically knows that her children are Na'vi, but she also can’t help but feel disappointed by the fact that they will always be different, and that this difference is caused by them having human blood (we get a glimpse of that in the comics). I also believe, unlike a lot of people I’ve seen, that this — canon or not — is not a disservice or a misinterpretation of her character at the hands of the writers. I actually think it’s a spontaneous progression of her arc and a natural consequence of the events she has experienced in the first movie/so far in her life, not to mention a very realistic effect of a life-long colonization and oppression. It’s not out of character, it’s an aspect of her character that is deeply complex, nuanced, even somewhat problematic, and therefore uncomfortable for a lot of fans to properly judge, analyze or even accept.

Also, small note about Jake, because I think this insight on Neytiri’s emotions naturally raises another question: does she feel shame about Jake too? In my opinion, yes. But it’s the same “logic” as before: she loves Jake for who he is, for what he has become, but she is not happy about the fact the he’s human, and I think a part of her will always struggle to accept that. I also think she loves him despite Jake being human, not that she loves him because she embraces this side of him. She hasn’t changed her mind about Sky People (and rightfully I would add), she has simply fallen in love with what she considers to be the exception, exactly because he is, at least in her eyes, the exception.

Remember that, whether this is about the kids or Jake, this an extremely nuanced and complicated situation and should be treated as such. In my opinion, Neytiri’s trauma about the Sky People will never truly heal. Even if one day she learns or decides to reconcile with (some of) them, even if she does need to work on some irrational and unconscious trauma responses she has (such as this feeling she has developed about her children), I believe there will always be a hidden part of her that will not accept it, there will always be a part of her struggling with the hate and the rage and void the Sky People left in her, there will always be a scar too deep to be properly healed. And that is legitimate.

Yep EXACTLY!! someone give me regency era Schroeder yearning for Lucy.

Like maybe they were engaged to marry when they were kids ny their parents. Lucy was happy about it obviously but Schroeder wasn't.

So it's the same dynamic between the two as we are used to. Then one day, either Lucy's parents changed their mind and cancel to engagement to marry her with someone more powerful. Or another gentleman start courting her and Schroeder get jealous. And Lucy is hesitant at first but them when she get to know her new suitor she realised she liked the attention and she's so sure Schroeder isn t interested that she just start moving on.

Oooh the angst when Schroeder realises it.

Y’all don’t understand how much I need YEARNING SCHROEDER

I need a regency au of grown up Schroeder/Lucy where he is DESPERATE FOR THIS WOMAN. I need a scene of them dancing together. I need a scene of him playing a composition that’s secretly a love song to her at all ball or party while everyone dances.

I need this man posted up at his piano or in his bed like THIS:

YEARNING FOR HER

I love this trend (on tik tok) lmao

The only reason they made Maddie a Noxian spy is because otherwise, she would've been a victim in this entire situation, and people would see how shitty Caitlyn's actions actually are.

Cait is still Maddie's superior. The power imbalance is very much there, not to mention the way she treats Maddie outside of their affair. Imagine if instead of being a 'traitor that weasled herself into Caitlyn's bed to gain her trust', Maddie was just an innocent young officer who was manipulated and used by her boss. It just makes Caitlyn look way worse, which she is, because she didn't know Maddie was a spy, so in her eyes, the difference in status didn't matter.

The writers needed somone else to be the scapegoat while Cailtyn did her thing and everyone was already against Maddie because she 'got in the way of Caitvi', which is not true by the way, Caitvi was always going to be cannon. Personally, I think it's ridiculous, but I've seen it happen time and time again in fandoms, so I'm honesty not surprised.

so i was rewatching "the boys are back in town", and i realized that its never explained how butch got this giant slug monster. at first i thought that maybe he just found it crawling around somewhere, since townsville is known for their monster attacks.

my second thought was that he kept it in his pocket with him and it grew in size with butch. this is actually very possible when you remember that brick uses a massive oven mitt in the same episode.

but those are both pretty lame in my opinion. so i thought, if butch's main ingredient is SNAILS, what if he just... produced it? what if that was one of his unique powers, to make slug creatures out of his sweat or oils or something and then do whatever he wants with them. maybe he throws them at people like snowballs, or sneaks them into boomer's someone's food as a prank. i just think itd be cool and would make him stand out a bit more against his brothers :3

Neytiri’s Fatal Flaw and Her Future Arc.

I was watching the deleted/original cut of the scene with Neytiri holding Spider hostage which — first off, incredible scene by the way like holy shit — but it made me think about how perfectly it served for Neytiri’s character.

Someone might’ve already talked about this already, but what I don’t think a lot of people realize is that this scene serves as the payoff for earlier Neytiri-related scenes as well as a starting point for her arc going forward.

If you haven’t watched the scene, here, it’s a far more impactful version of an already hard hitting scene and I’m going to treat it as what “really” happened in the story for the sake of analysis.

The first moment I’m focusing on is this one where Neytiri goes to pick up her bow after killing a few RDA grunts, only to find that the bow is now broken and unusable.

There’s a running theme in these two movies that I’ve seen people point out and that’s how Neytiri keeps losing things that are precious to her, whether they be people, places, or objects.

In the first movie, she loses a lot including but not limited to the Hometree, the Tree of Voices, her older sister, Tsu’tey, her Ikran, and her father. When her father dies, he grants her the Ceremonial Bow and that’s what she ends up using to fight in all subsequent battles.

In the second movie, she thankfully doesn’t lose as much, but she’s still forced to leave her home and her first born son is killed in the heat of battle, rough times all around.

You’ll note that I didn’t include losing her precious bow on the list of things she lost and that’s because she didn’t lose the bow, she broke it.

All the other losses I’ve described are caused by the RDA, but this one isn’t. Instead of her bow being broken by another grunt in the heat of the battle, she’s the one who breaks it by swinging it haphazardly at her enemies.

I may not know all that much about archery or making weapons, but I’m almost certain that bows aren’t designed to be used like that, which is why her bow broke the way that it did.

And it cannot be understated how important this bow must be to Neytiri. I mentioned before that it was given to her by her late father, making it an important connection to her family already, but it’s also made from the wood of Hometree. So not only is it a connection to her family, it’s a connection to her people and the home that was stolen from them.

All that and she still broke it, not because she didn’t cherish the bow, but because she just couldn’t control her anger enough to handle it properly.

And that’s what I feel Neytiri’s fatal flaw is, as well as what her arc will be primarily focusing on in the upcoming movies — Neytiri’s anger and hatred leads to blind rage, and she becomes liable to hurt those she cares about.

For the record, I am not making the claim that Neytiri’s flaw is that she gets angry. Being outraged by death and destruction, hating those who bring about injustice, these aren’t flaws and aren’t things she should be vilified for. What is a flaw is how she uses her anger, or rather how it uses her.

Jake spells it out pretty cleanly in a scene that happened a while ago. When Tonowari told Jake and Neytiri about the destruction the RDA was causing to the nearby villages, they immediately connect it back to Quaritch. Neytiri describes how they have to finish off Quaritch — “we have to hunt this demon, trap him, kill him” — and this is what Jake says in response to that idea:

“We gotta be smart…”

He’s not dismissing the idea of doing something, he’s just cautioning her on how they go about doing it. That’s the crux of Neytiri’s most prevalent flaw, it isn’t her becoming angered at the injustice she and her people face, it’s her not being smart about how she acts on it.

The last two moments I’d like to draw attention to are the one where one of Quartich’s lackey calls Neytiri a “wild animal” and the one where she actually acts like one.

For the record, Lyle and Quaritch are in the wrong for likening Neytiri to an animal and dehumanizing her in the process, especially when the reason they insulted her was because she was acting violent in the video where she was protecting her husband. However, it’s undeniable that during the fight on the Sea Dragon, Neytiri is the most violent and rage filled we’ve ever seen her.

It’s particularly noticeable right before she realizes she broke her bow, which is definitely not a coincidence I’ll tell you that much.

She screams in the guys face and stabs him over and over and over again, after which she gets up and starts growling, searching for anything else that moves. It’s not a stretch to say that, in this moment, she’s acting almost like a bloodthirsty animal hungry for vengeance, not too dissimilar from the wild animal the recoms painted her as.

And all of this, her accidentally breaking her father’s bow, being asked to be smart about it all, acting like a wild animal, it all comes to a head in the moment where she uses Spider’s life as leverage to save Kiri’s. It starts off good when she makes Quaritch let Kiri go, but when Kiri is freed from Quaritch’s grasp and she can turn her attention to the man himself…

…she puts the blade back against Spider’s neck and utters those infamous lines:

“A son for a son.”

I’ve seen a lot of people comment on how “powerful” of a scene this is, and while I agree that it’s a powerful storytelling moment and extremely important to Neytiri’s character, I think a lot of people miss the fact that this isn’t an admirable moment of a mother’s rage, but a scary and dark moment where Neytiri is about to fall to Quaritch’s lows.

Because if Neytiri had actually gone through with this decision, then she would’ve done the same thing to her family that she did with her bow — destroy it. What’s important to note about Neytiri’s hatred towards Spider is that; while it’s understandable considering all the trauma she went through at the hands of his father and the RDA, she’s the only one in her family that feels this way towards him.

For one thing, Spider is both Lo’ak and Kiri’s best friend and they know how much Spider hates being Quaritch’s son, there’s no way that they’d just accept Neytiri after she killed their best friend. We don’t get much development on Spider’s relationship with Tuk or Neteyam, but we see Spider protect Tuk, tease Neteyam, and cry during Neteyam’s death, so they must be friends on some level.

And finally Jake. Admittedly, Jake is pretty lukewarm towards Spider throughout the entire movie, but I’d argue that’s him keeping a respectful distance because of him wanting to side with his wife and not any malice Jake genuinely holds towards Spider himself. We even see him checking over Spider at the end of the movie like he does with Lo’ak and Neteyam.

As much as Jake unconditionally loves Neytiri, I cannot see a world where he’s able to look at her the same way if she killed an innocent child.

And I do mean innocent, because at this point in time Spider’s only “crimes” are being human(not his choice) and being Quaritch’s son(also not his choice). Even if Neytiri’s feelings towards him are understandable and valid, her actions at this point are not justifiable and Jake knows it.

That’s not even mentioning how she hisses at Kiri during this scene, she’s not acting with her family’s best interest in mind, she’s acting on pure rage.

If she had gone through with it and killed Spider, Kiri and Lo’ak would hate her, Tuk wouldn’t be able to look at her the same way again, and Jake probably would’ve left her. She truly did come a hair’s width away from destroying something precious to her once again.

Now let’s talk about Spider for a minute because he’s crucial to all of this, as Neytiri’s hatred for humans extends to her hatred of him.

We already know that, to the Na’vi, “I see you” is considered a respectful greeting, but it’s also a show of great understanding between two people; it’s why Jake’s two pivotal emotional moments at the end of the movies are him telling a loved one “I see you,” it’s because he’s come to understand them as a person beyond what he initially thought.

In contrast, Neytiri does not see Spider, her eyes are shut. Instead of seeing Spider as a person, all she sees is just another human who ought to be with his own kind, a demon. And this is honestly fine, Neytiri isn’t Spider’s mother or caretaker so she’s not obligated to try and understand him as anything deeper than her enemies child and her own children’s best friend.

However, because Neytiri refuses to see Spider as anything other than another human, she lets this hatred for him and his heritage fester until she feels comfortable to threaten his life and see him as a means to an end. And that, no matter how much one may argue it’s understandable from her perspective, leads to dire consequences.

Namely, Spider’s choice to save Quaritch.

Now, before anyone yells at me let me clarify — I am not saying that Neytiri is responsible for Spider’s choice, nor is she responsible for any harm Quaritch will cause in the upcoming movies. However, it’s undeniable that her actions influenced Spider’s decision, whether directly or indirectly.

When Neytiri threatened Spider’s life, Quaritch initially plays off the fact that he’s technically not his son, citing that they aren’t even the same species. But when Neytiri pushes even further, he breaks and shows that he does actually care about Spider, willing to let go of his hostage in order to protect him.

This is big for Spider as his only major desire is to have a family, specifically a parental figure who genuinely cared about him as he is. I’d even go as far as to say that this moment probably proved to Spider that Quaritch cares about him as more than just a mean’s to an end. He’d already helped Quaritch bond with an Ikran and find the Sully family(against his will), he had nothing else to offer but Quaritch still wanted him alive.

This, along with the months they spent together, are what pushed Spider to make his decision at the end of the movie, a decision he was explicitly conflicted about.

And this came about from Neytiri’s decision. I know a lot of people would argue that Neytiri had to do this because it was the only way to save her daughter, and I’ll agree that there weren’t many options for her. But this wasn’t a tactical move she was making, she wasn’t bluffing or putting on a show to force Quaritch’s hand, she was explicitly going to kill Spider just to make Quaritch hurt in the same way she was hurting.

Also, if we want to nitpick we could also say that the months Quaritch and Spider spent together also came about as a result of her actions. When they’re running away from the Recoms, Spider is the only one who falls to the ground and Neytiri doesn’t even think to try and go get him.

“B-But there’s no way Neytiri would’ve been able to save him and get away! She has her own children to worry about!” I hear you typing in the notes of this post, and to that I say you’ve got a point.

However, the fact that Neytiri doesn’t even consider going down to rescue him, doesn’t look over the branch and hesitate before making the difficult decision to prioritize Kiri and feel bad about it later shows that her reasoning is solidly NOT rooted in him being one of her kids or not.

She doesn’t even try, and because of that Quaritch and Spider end up forming the basis for a solid bond.

TLDR; Neytiri’s fatal flaw is that she allows her anger and hatred to cloud her better judgment and control her, leading to a destructive attitude that can ultimately hurt the people she loves and make things worse for her.

Now, what does this have to do with her arc going forward?

At this point, I’m pretty sure everyone has heard at least a little bit about the next movie, Avatar Fire and Ash. I’ve seen people theorizing that the fire tribe will be joining forces with the RDA, that they don’t believe in Eywa, and that Neytiri will have to infiltrate the tribe in order to rescue her children.

I’m not certain whether any of this is true, but what I am certain of is that — if these concept arts hold water by the time the movie is released — then the fire tribe we’ll be encountering in the third movie is going to be an extremely violent community, likely one that puts emphasis on anger and hatred.

And if the rumors are true and Neytiri really is going to be infiltrating them, then Neytiri’s flaws might be able to inform what narrative role the Ash People and Varaang in particular will have in the third movie.

I’ve already explained how in depth how her flaw is how she allows her anger to take control of her and close her vision; she’s volatile like lava and burns hot like fire, becoming liable to burn everything and everyone around her.

From that perspective, she seems more suited to be a fire Na’vi rather than a forest or reef one, no? The choice to take us to a volcanic, fire steeped region isn’t just James Cameron checking off the boxes like “oh we did forest and water, fire next!” its him taking us to a we might find uncomfortably befitting of our worst traits.

And that’s basically what I think Neytiri will have to face upon encountering the Ash People — they are the embodiment of all her flaws put on display.

Varaang specifically may work as her narrative foil, a literal funhouse version of her at her worst(from my perspective the concept art of Varaang actually looks a lot like Neytiri, so that’s interesting).

I also think it’s important to note that Neytiri is absolutely going to find out that Spider saved Quaritch in the third movie, or at least it’s incredibly likely if the Ash People really will be working with Quaritch. That means that her hatred for him and her need for revenge will come back into play, this isn’t over.

But this time things will be different, because in between Neytiri learning of Spider’s betrayal she will also get especially close to the Ash People and find that she is uncomfortably similar to them at her worst. Before she does something she might regret, Neytiri will be forced to ask herself some important questions:

Is revenge really worth it? Is this the kind of person she wants to be? If Jake wasn’t there that night, would she have the blood of a child on her hands? Will she hurt other people she loves because of her anger?

These questions are ones she likely never wanted to ask herself, but they’re necessary because she’s starting right in the face of people who didn’t.

Hopefully, she finds that the answer is no.

Spouses Friend Group out at a fair

Penelope, shortest of the group: Guys if you don't slow the fuck down we're gonna kick your kneecaps in!

Lucy, second shortest of the group: We got tiny legs and frozen margaritas!

Simon and Michael: *loops back around, hands the shorties their own frozen margaritas, picks them up, and runs back to the rest of the group*

Are you okay or did you realize Ekko was right

the arcane fandom can argue about literally anything, but the one thing we all agree on is that ekko, the boy savior, is the most unproblematic character ever, and that we all absolutely love him. while everyone else is caught up in gay tragedy of all kinds, my boy ekko is just over here trying to fix his damn tree