Do You Know Any Credible Sources On “programming” Specifically? I Am Unclear On The Actual Definition,

Do you know any credible sources on “programming” specifically? I am unclear on the actual definition, I think I went through some things that could be described that way but I don’t understand the difference between “programming” and “grooming” trafficking victims. I previously have only really heard explanations on what programming supposedly is from untrustworthy, conspiracy-ish sources talking about like government mind-control in pop music, but I don’t want to disregard the whole concept if there is better information or research on it.

The term "programming", as I understand it, has fallen out of academic favor due to the connections you mention. Because of this, its definition is somewhat fluid, but I'd generally define programming as:

"The process of using trauma-induced dissociation to implant specific sets of instructions, messages, learned associations, and triggers to produce desired behavior in a victim. It is, at its essence, an extreme form of conditioning, and relies on the use of dissociated parts (alters) to effectively control the victim's mind."

Another source, ra-info.org (one of the oldest sites about RAMCOA on the internet) puts it this way:

"Programming refers both to the process of teaching part of the mind unquestioned obedience and to the content of what is taught. Thus you can say that a person has been programmed to suicide under certain conditions, or you can talk about a suicide program that is triggered (activated) by certain words or conditions."

Grooming for trafficking purposes may or may not use programming methods, as programming requires a level environmental control that not all situations can muster. Programming also typically involves... Well, weirder, more intense stuff. For example, most trafficking operations are not going to use spin programming, but rely more on basic cause & effect. Additionally, grooming may have more of a focus on positive reinforcement, while programming typically doesn't.

And programming is just one end of a large spectrum that encompasses many forms of conditioning, grooming, and abuse; some cases may have some elements of programming (like manipulating dissociative responses to create alters) while not having the structure necessary to do a good job of it. (That's what our case looked like!) Trafficking organizations may not have the money, access, space, or time to implement full programs.

But sources that mention programming by name do exist, and most give their own definition of programming. I'll throw them under a cut because this post is already getting long.

Dialogues With Forgotten Voices by Harvey Schwartz (2000). Generally a great resource so far, I haven't read all of it but what I have gone through is enlightening. Programming is mentioned all through the book but 330 is where more specifics are discussed. Index starts at page 499 so you can peruse topics by your own discretion. His other book, The Alchemy of Wolves & Sheep, covers similar ground (RAMCOA) but with a unique focus (forced perpetration). It's in my pinned post.

Both of Alison Miller's Books, Healing the Unimaginable (2011) and Becoming Yourself (2014). Many survivors swear by these books, and they use the term "programming" throughout. I haven't read these yet but you'll see them referenced constantly.

Safe Passage to Healing by Chrystine Oksana (1994). Another "classic", another book I haven't touched yet. Discusses programming quite a bit and is meant for survivors.

Many of Steven Hassan's works use programming in a slightly more "casual" manner from what I can see—referring to brainwashing at any age in the contexts of cults, as that's Hassan's focus—but helpful for many regardless.

Spin Programming: A Newly Uncovered Technique of Systematic Mind Control by John Lovern (1993) and Common Programs Observed in Survivors of Satanic Ritualistic Abuse by Neswald, Gould, and Graham-Costain (1991). Lumping these together despite the different authors because they're in my "I can't 100% trust these but the information is, in general, useful and many survivors share these" category. The first also includes sketches by survivors, but we're partial to the second one because we don't have spin programming.

On top of this list, there are HUNDREDS of sources that do not use the term "programming" but regardless, refer to similar processes. Too many to list. I hope this is a good starting point though!

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More Posts from Over-by-the-fishtank and Others

2 years ago

On days you feel exhausted but frustrated because you feel like you haven’t done anything to be this tired, think about these things:

How longe since you’ve had a good night’s sleep? No nightmares, no waking up multiple times, actually going to bed early, not having insomnia, actually waking up feeling rested and ready to face the day?

How long has it been since you ate a properly nutritious and wholesome meal?

How long since you’ve taken a break from work without thinking about all the work you will have to do later?

Are you currently fighting any illness? Remember your body takes energy to recover.

Are you really “doing nothing” if you are constantly overthinking the fact you feel unproductive, if you are constantly stressed with the things you do and don’t do?

Have you had bad/no social interaction lately?

Are you in any physical or mental pain?

Are you taking care of everyone but yourself?

Does trying to live during a pandemic and world crisis brings you worry and stress?

Are you feeling anguish over all the burdens you have to carry but don’t seem to be able to do everything you feel like you should be doing?

Are you constantly worried? Anxious?

It doesn’t feel like you have been doing nothing now, does it? It feels like you have a lot going on that you have to deal with daily, even when you don’t consciously notice it. There is a lot of stress inducing factors around you and struggling is okay.

It is not easy to be human sometimes, so please, don’t pressure yourself so much when you are already trying to cope. If it feels like everything is too heavy, please ask for help.

Please take care of yourself. 🌱


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Really what you’re doing is making RA systems who aren’t polyfrag less able to access your community

RAMCOA is classified as “extreme abuse” for a reason. And especially MC, which is really why the HC-DID label is a thing at all.

MC quite literally breaks a child down so the abuser can create whatever they want and make the child do whatever they want. The process that abusers use to create MC-based systems is inherently complex and will as such create an extremely complex and multifaceted system structure.

The label “HC-DID” harms no one. Nobody is being forced to use it. It is a label for a smaller group of severely traumatized people to create a community under.

2 years ago
Some Explanations About Dissociated Parts And Memory, Information From The Haunted Self And Paraphrased
Some Explanations About Dissociated Parts And Memory, Information From The Haunted Self And Paraphrased
Some Explanations About Dissociated Parts And Memory, Information From The Haunted Self And Paraphrased
Some Explanations About Dissociated Parts And Memory, Information From The Haunted Self And Paraphrased
Some Explanations About Dissociated Parts And Memory, Information From The Haunted Self And Paraphrased
Some Explanations About Dissociated Parts And Memory, Information From The Haunted Self And Paraphrased

Some explanations about dissociated parts and memory, information from The Haunted Self and paraphrased by yours truly.

Every part deserves to have their piece respected, even if it doesn’t seem to fit in neatly with the others, even if you think it’s weirdly shaped, even if it just seems scary. 

And remember: Puzzles are put together one piece at a time.

[Check out my DID/OSDD casually explained masterpost for sources and more infographics!]


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Always judging

Always Judging
2 years ago

Why maladaptive daydreaming (MaDD) should be classified a dissociative disorder

Contents:

Maladaptive daydreaming summary

Dissociative disorders summary

Diagnostic criteria

Conclusion

(~1100 words)

Keep reading


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Do you have sources for any of the things you've been talking about lately (the different programming types, hc-did, basically all of it)? I'd really like to do some more reading on this stuff but I've found a grand total of One book and most of the rest of the stuff is social media posts with no references, or references to other social media posts :(

Our top three “sources” are usually our system, late night conversations with irl friends, and social media.

The biggest issue isn’t actually a lack of resources, but a lack of good resources. Survivors put out material before they realize they got something wrong. The clinicians that work with us are the same, and the first generation of papers were shots in the dark and fear of lies that hadn’t been exposed yet.

There’ll be a lot about a big, networked Cult, usually either the Illuminati or Luciferians. Plenty of government conspiracy theories, references to projects that sometimes do get evidence. Then there’s the regular racism and Christian lens.

If you’re looking for overviews and definitions, they got taken down here are some good websites:

https://www.ra-free.org/complexities-of-identifying-ritual-abuse - not a lot of information, lists studies and professionals

https://endritualabuse.org/full-article-index/ - lots of good articles, some really helpful, others had me cocking my head

https://www.cherylrainfield.com/articles-cult-abuse/ - more about the author than the issue, some useful links on that page

There used to be more. Two others, one about spin programming and one about colors, are still up, but a little out there. You’ll know if you see them

Some books with more details. Not good books, just books:

https://ia803208.us.archive.org/34/items/BecomingYourself.Miller/BecomingYourself.Miller.pdf - the single best thing I’ve found and I still have complaints, this version is unformatted but free

https://ia803400.us.archive.org/28/items/chainless-slaves-annotated/Chainless%20Slaves%20-%20Annotated.pdf - I didn’t like it, lots of certain language for iffy concepts, has a list of programs and alter roles

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=89e823aedc9c69ffd8d715757c86878af27c37c9 - not a fan, also lots of funky ideas and hate-based rhetoric, has lists of programs and cues

There are lots of survivor autobiographies and outsider opinions, but I don’t have free links to those

Keep in mind that getting out of a high control group sucks ass, and most accounts (even if they claim to have healed) have the remnants of the abusive ideologies.

I still prefer hearing from other survivors what happened, and I find it easier to validate people I can easily contact. I’ll keep the webpage if I find anything I can’t just Google, but this is what I can pull right now.

It’s not great, buddy, but it’s something.

blank meme format, the face of a cat with large watery eyes looks out of the bottom right corner, its paw is up to the left in an unnatural thumbs up gesture
2 years ago
MARCH 2022

MARCH 2022

Read:

Changing Your Mind Can Make You Less Anxious

Life in the Stacks: A Love Letter to Browsing

Excerpt from We Learn Nothing, by Tim Kreider

World wide open (How deep brain stimulation changes a person’s sense of confidence)

How to gain more from your reading

Assertiveness is a virtue that anyone can develop with practice

Lies and honest mistakes

The Pandemic Did Not Affect Mental Health the Way You Think

The invisible addiction: is it time to give up caffeine?

Curiosity Depends on What You Already Know

“Get Me Off Your Fucking Mailing List” is an actual science paper accepted by a journal

Imagine you could insert knowledge into your mind: should you?*

Want to know, even if it hurts? You must be a truth masochist

Mental disorders are brain disorders - here’s why that matters

Forget morality

Unlocking the ‘gut microbiome’ - and its massive significance to our health

Our Little Life Is Rounded with Possibility

In praise of habits - so much more than mindless reflexes

How Social Media Shapes Our Identity

The Forgotten Women of the Antibiotics Race

Diagnosis as Detective Work: Lisa Sanders and the Art of Not Knowing

Do Brain Implants Change Your Identity?

The Promise and the Peril of Virtual Health Care

Adam Savage on Lists, More Lists, and the Power of Checkboxes

What We Get Wrong About Joan Didion

How to find focus

Biotechnology Greed Is Prolonging the Pandemic. It’s Inexcusable.

Why some of the smartest people can be so very stupid

In praise of possibility

Empathy is, at heart, an aesthetic appreciation of the other

‘I Can’t Stop Trying to Be Perfect!’

Reports of a Baleful Internet Are Greatly Exaggerated

How to Unlearn a Disease

Can Reading Make You Happier?

Expert by Roger Kneebone

Watched:

Vaccines & Freedom

Succession - The Toxic Culture of Success

the problem with plastic surgery

L to the OG: How Succession Uses Music**

Peaky Blinders (S6)

Dopesick

Listened To:

I’m still going round the same playlist as last month

Went To:

Life Through A Royal Lens @ Kensington Palace

Swan Lake @ Royal Opera House


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Hi, I noticed your post explaining HC-DID, and I was wondering more about sidesystems? And hoping for some help on how to label ourselves.

With us, we refer to what is basically two systems within the body as a “front system” and “back system”; The front system has had a lot of known alters, within the hundreds, but none of them had any knowledge of any RAMCOA trauma until recently when we discovered what it was, and triggered a lot of programs for ourselves. It was only after this that the back system started actually showing themselves. Their alter count is supposedly incredibly high, divided in a lot of subsystems. We’ve heard things about thousands..? However, our front system does not have thousands. But we feel like we’re equals. We feel weird calling ourselves a sidesystem just because we’re only learning of our RAMCOA trauma now. We’re the system that’s been stuck dealing with everything since then and we are just as important as all of the back system. But, can both of us just consider ourselves two systems within one body and call it a day? Or would that be strange? Any extra information you have on sidesystems and subsystems within HC-DID would also be helpful. We hope to discover other terminology that resonates with us on this subject.

Thanks for your time :)

Honestly terms are just for using at your own discretion. Even if the way you function fits a specific term- you don't have to go along with it. Our what we thought was the "main" system turned out to be what we learned was a side-system. They have decided to use this term themselves but if any of them in it don't use it they'd be allowed to with no worries- just use another term- or not use it at all.

The sidesystem in our own system has been what we were aware of first and more often. We do see our sidesystem as equal to all our programmed/RAMCOA aware (formed in it organically) subsystems. Our main grouping which we consider a sidesystem also has a lot of subsystems within it. Sometimes things can get incredibly complex.

We also eventually found out about our own RAMCOA history because of triggered programs. It was pre-looking into RAMCOA in our case and more so happened because we were digging in our childhood already because of organic alters trauma. I'm sorry you went through all of that- those kind of experiences really suck.

Again you really have no obligation to call anything a sidesystem if you don't want to. Honestly I think the terms you're using as "front and back" can be really fitting and if they work for you? No problem using just that. And honestly yeah- I think it'd be reasonable to view it as just having multiple systems in one body. Hell we sorta do view it in that way ourselves.

As for extra information. I actually kinda want to make a post going over some structures that may show up in HC-DID systems. I think having something we can link back too in the future will be useful. Unsure when that will be out but I will begin working on it today at the very least.

11 months ago
If You Need Me I’ll Be Collecting Bruises

If you need me I’ll be collecting bruises

2 years ago
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This
A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This

A comic about the spectrum of responses to stress - we talk alot about the more extreme ends of this and trauma, but the more subtle and every day responses can be harder to spot. if we can understand our own and other’s responses better, problems Are easier to confront and blaming is less likely to happen :) hope it’s helpful!!


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over-by-the-fishtank - Nice to meet you all We’er Mountain
Nice to meet you all We’er Mountain

Hi we’er the Mountain cap collectiveCPTSD,C-DID,ASD,Low empathy because of abuse, CSA survivorAsk pronouns, but you can just use they/them for anybody

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